Should I be thankful for my sinful ways? (paradise, Revelation, beliefs)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Well since the belief is we all sin.. that is indeed the path to a relationship with God.. No?
I don't believe that, so no. This is the main reason I do not call myself a Christian; I do not believe that man is a born sinner.
I believe that babies are born a tabula rasa.
If I believed what you believed I would probably have become an amoral hedonist. The reason why I make a distinct difference between good and evil is because I do not view good and evil as simple as black and white.
I may not fear making mistakes, but I fear not learning from my mistakes.
So this is why I always think everything through and constantly keep analysing myself.
Let's look at it another way. Suppose that Jesus had never existed. And that he never died, how would this have changed your relationship with God? Wouldn't a sin still be a mistake on your part?
Would you still have the same thoughts? Do the same things? If your behavior is based on Jesus and the Cross, haven't you missed a relationship with God? Certainly, if you saw nothing as sinful, You wouldn't have need of a god of any sort. Soooo, in that sense, you should be thankful for having a relationship that you would not have experinenced had it not been for sin.
(please remember that when I say YOU, I really mean all of you all)
Originally Posted by bigthirstyI don't believe that, so no.
But you aren't a Christian right.. and the post is about sin from a Christian perspective. When I posted what you quoted it was in the context of the post as it relates to Christian sin which was inherently assumed since it was posted in a Christian forum.
So whether or not you beleive "that", isn't the question at hand.. The question is.. is that the belief from a Christian view.
Babies being born tabula rasa (which they aren't) has no bearing on the subject at hand..
Trust me when I say I'm not being a Christian snob on this post (as I'm far from being a model Christian).. its just that the post has everything to do with a Christian belief system and nothing else so bringing up what you believe personally, since you have stated you aren't a Christian, really is tabula rasa..
Let's look at it another way. Suppose that Jesus had never existed. And that he never died, how would this have changed your relationship with God?
Not being funny here... but I guess I'd be Jewish..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Padgett2
Wouldn't a sin still be a mistake on your part?
Yes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Padgett2
Would you still have the same thoughts? Do the same things?
Probably
Quote:
Originally Posted by Padgett2
If your behavior is based on Jesus and the Cross, haven't you missed a relationship with God?
My behavior is the same either way.. as we established.. Its just now.. I'm forgiven for my sins. Which allows me to have a relationship with God.
If there was no Jesus my relationship would be based on guilt all the time with no prospect of ever being forgiven right??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Padgett2
Certainly, if you saw nothing as sinful, You wouldn't have need of a god of any sort.
But its not that becasue of Jesus we recognize sin.. Are you saying that .. I know.. purely speculation.. that if Jesus hadn't exisited we wouldn't have recognized the sin or evil and thus wouldn't have needed a god?
I'll go with a parallel (yet totally worthless) example..
You are driving down the road.. and your tire blows out right next to a gas station. You realize you don't have the right tools to fix the tire so you limp into the gas station. While you wait for a tow truck (or someone else to show up for the right tools) you purchase a lottery ticket. The next day you win $562,582,800 after taxes.
Some people might say.. man... I sure am glad I had a flat tire.
Babies being born tabula rasa (which they aren't) has no bearing on the subject at hand
If children are not born sinners, but are taught that they can't be anything else but born sinners by their parents, they can only become born sinners.
If you keep calling me a thief, even when I'm not and you keep doing this for years and years without ever producing any actual physical evidence, would it then be unreasonable from me to steal from you since you've been calling me a thief from the day I was born?
So when you treat people as sinners, you should not be surprised that they actually become sinners. But that doesn’t mean that people are born sinners.
Originally Posted by Padgett2
Quote:
Let's look at it another way. Suppose that Jesus had never existed.
It would not have mattered that much, because there would still be religion.
Besides Jesus never focused on the afterlife anyways, he was only interested in the here and now. He wanted to teach people that God had compassion for EVERYONE and not only the Jews. In fact it were the Pharisees who heavily focused on sin and profited from it, and Jesus condemned them for it. He often called them snakes, betrayers and other bad things.
Somehow, I actually understand where you're coming from.
Without our sinful ways (and the knowledge to understand sin) we would be as much in need of Christ. It's the Holy Spirit that convicts us of our sin, it is then up to us to try and correct ourselves. I am so very thankful that Jesus dies to pardon my sins, but that doesn't mean I have a free "golden ticket" to knowingly continue to sin.
Have you ever noticed that some of the worst offenders (murderers, druggies etc) that have given their life to Christ, often become the best, most effective witnesses? Whereas, one that goes through life thinking their a "good person" may not realize just how much they really need Him.
...".. Are you saying that .. I know.. purely speculation.. that if Jesus hadn't exisited we wouldn't have recognized the sin or evil and thus wouldn't have needed a god?...."
Nope, not saying if Jesus hadn't existed, I think it's more like 'if you didn't believe in a god,' then you wouldn't think of something being sinful. You would either be a good boy or misbehave just because you wanted to,and not because of a Spiritual Guide/God/Creator/whatever told you it was a sin.
You would either be a good boy or misbehave just because you wanted to,and not because of a Spiritual Guide/God/Creator/whatever told you it was a sin.
Nope I still would not do evil because I do not like it when others do evil to me. Even if I did not recognise evil as a sin I'd hopefully have enough sense to recognise evil as evil.
I do not need a Bible to tell me what evil is.
I needed Jesus to recognise what love is not.
Violence is not always evil and obeying the law is not always good.
If you keep calling me a thief, even when I'm not and you keep doing this for years and years without ever producing any actual physical evidence, would it then be unreasonable from me to steal from you since you've been calling me a thief from the day I was born?
No.. it wouldn't be unreasonable... cause then I'd be right for calling you a thief.. which you were.. for stealing.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This is the main reason I do not call myself a Christian; I do not believe that man is a born sinner. 
But that doesn’t mean that people are born sinners.
Even if I did not recognise evil as a sin I'd hopefully have enough sense to recognise evil as evil.
