why do people say that all believers will be in Heaven? (church, believe)

[Priscilla Martin]

Mark A. Copeland pastor of Fortune Road Church of Christ in Kissimmee, Florida in his sermon notes "THE EPISTLE OF JAMES" Three Kinds Of Faith (2:14-26) talks about DEAD FAITH, DEMONIC FAITH AND DYNAMIC FAITH

There is much more to his outline than I summarized here, due to copyright. The entire outlne is found Sermons From James - Three Kinds Of Faith (2:14-26) I added the verses and broke them down to make it easier for me to follow.

James 2:14-26 (KJV)
14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also

1. Dead faith is an intellectual faith that substitutes words for deeds. They may have said the right words, but there is no heart change and no action. (V. 14-17)
2. Demonic faith is an intellectual and emotional faith. Not only demons possess this kind of faith. This faith believes the right things and feels the right things but has no actions. (V. 18-19)
3. Dynamic faith is intellectual, emotional, and willful. The mind understands, the heart desires, the will acts. Dynamic faith involves the whole man and leads to action. (V. 20-26)

Pastor Copeland credits much of the material for this outline was adapted heavily from The Bible Exposition Commentary, Volume 2, by Warren W. Wiersbe, pages 353-357.

[Pleroo]

I'm not directing this response at Whitewings but using that post as a springboard...

<snip>
By that I do not mean we are saved by works. Good works are the fruit of salvation. A tree is known by the quality of its fruit.

"Good works" of love ARE salvation. When we are living in harmony with love, then we are experiencing the kingdom (reign) of heaven within ourselves right here and now. So forget about going to heaven (I'm pretty sure that phrase is nowhere in your bible) and let heaven reign over you and manifest in your life right now.

"For the kingdom of God is... righteousness and peace and joy."

[Phil P]

Originally Posted by Mopac1980

I don't get why people say that all believers of God will be in Heaven when in reality you have to do a lot more than just believe in Jesus to get to Heaven, unfortunately not all people who claim to be Christians will be in Heaven, only those who live by Jesus/God's teachings are the ones who'll be there, not those who believes in God yet does nothing for Him.

Cause otherwise Heavens going to have the VACANCY light on for eternity. By my moms fundie churches standards, your not going there and your church probably says mom's not going there. So someone expanded the entrance requirements to make it look more appealing.

[standingdeer]

Originally Posted by Mike555

There are three things you should realize.

First, Jesus didn't die for the fallen angels. He didn't come into world to provide salvation for the fallen angels. He came into the world to provide salvation for mankind.

Second, in James 2:19 it wasn't James who said, 'You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe and shudder. It was James' hypothetical opponent who said that. James introduced a hypothetical opponent who was arguing against James. In James 2:18 James introduced the hypothetical opponent with the words ''But someone may well say.''

James 2:18 But someone (the hypothetical opponent) may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

In arguing against what James was saying, his position was, if you can show me your faith without works, then I can show you my faith by my works. In other words, James' hypothetical opponent's argument was, 'You can't show me your faith without works, BUT, neither can I show my faith by my works. The hypothetical opponent's argument was that it was not necessary to be a doer of the word. That of course was in opposition to what James was saying.

Third, James isn't using the word 'faith' in terms of believing on Christ. The word faith can also refer to that which is believed. In Acts 13:6-8, the word 'faith' refers to the Word of God - doctrine.

Acts 13:6 When they had gone through the whole island as far as Paphos, they found a magician, a Jewish false prophet whose name was Bar-Jesus, 7] who was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, a man of intelligence. This man summoned Barnabas and Saul and sought to hear the word of God [with reference to the gospel]. 8] But Elymas the magician (for so his name is translated) was opposing them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith [away from the gospel].

As can be seen, in Acts 13:6-8, the word faith is used with reference to the gospel which is a category of doctrine.

In like manner, in Gal. 1:11, 23, the word 'faith' refers to the gospel. Notice the definite article in front of the word faith - 'the faith.' Paul was preaching the faith - the gospel.

Gal. 1:11 [This is Paul speaking] For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man . . . 23] but only, they kept hearing, ''He who once persecuted us is now preaching the faith [preaching the gospel] which he once tried to destroy.''

In 1 Timothy 4:6 the reference is to the words of the faith and of the sound doctrine.

1 Tim. 4:6 In pointing out these things to the brethren, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, constantly nourished on the words of the faith and of the sound doctrine which you have been following.

And so, in James 1:22,25 we find James talking about being an effectual doer of the word, and not a forgetful hearer. He is urging his brethren (which means that they are saved) to not just hear the word of God, but to apply it in their spiritual life. If they do not apply their doctrine, then their faith with reference to their doctrine is useless and they have a non-productive or 'dead' spiritual life. But they are still eternally saved.

I was just responding to the first post, I am very aware who will or will not be with Him. When folks say only those that believe in Him will be with Him, there are a number that believe, but will not be with Him. Those that are against Yeshua will NOT, have a part in the Marriage Supper of The Lamb, those that die in sin will not. Didn't make clear what I was trying to say. LORD,LORD have I not done .........., I do not know you, depart from me you worker of iniquity.

[Michael Way]

Originally Posted by standingdeer

I was just responding to the first post, I am very aware who will or will not be with Him. When folks say only those that believe in Him will be with Him, there are a number that believe, but will not be with Him. Those that are against Yeshua will NOT, have a part in the Marriage Supper of The Lamb, those that die in sin will not. Didn't make clear what I was trying to say.

What everyone needs to be clear on is that everyone who has, in recognition of the fact that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that He died for their sins, believed on Christ, which means that everyone who has relied on Him alone for their salvation is eternally saved. Even if a believer turns away from Christ after having been saved, He cannot lose his salvation.

Jesus said;

John 6:37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. 38] ''For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39] This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40] For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes on Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.''

Paul said,

2 Tim. 2:10 It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him;

Everyone who has believed on Christ has positionally died with Christ. That is, everyone who believes on Christ is identified with Christ in not only His death and burial, but also in His resurrection. This identification occurs at the moment of faith in Christ at which time the baptism of the Holy Spirit places the believer into union with Christ. And so, every believer having been placed into union with Christ and identified with Christ in His death, will certainly live with Christ.


These are very strong affirmations of the believer's eternal security. Everyone who believes - relies on Christ will have eternal life. The future tense usage pertaining to eternal life refers to the resurrection of the body. But eternal life is also spoken of in present tense, as in Ephesian 2:8 with reference to the fact that the believer possesses eternal life in his soul right now.

[daylux]

Originally Posted by Mopac1980

I don't get why people say that all believers of God will be in Heaven when in reality you have to do a lot more than just believe in Jesus to get to Heaven, unfortunately not all people who claim to be Christians will be in Heaven, only those who live by Jesus/God's teachings are the ones who'll be there, not those who believes in God yet does nothing for Him.

All you need to do is believe in Jesus, it says many times in the Bible. It also says many times that works won't get you into heaven.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by daylux

All you need to do is believe in Jesus, it says many times in the Bible. It also says many times that works won't get you into heaven.

Which version of the Bible would that be?

There is a gargantuan difference between saying that your good works won't get you into heaven and saying that all you must do is "believe in Jesus."

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward everyman according to his works.

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Romans 2:12-13 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

2 Timothy: 2-19 Nevertheless, the foundation of God standeth sure, having the seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

James 2:20-24 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son uponthe altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

I just don't get how people can simply ignore all of these!

[daylux]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Which version of the Bible would that be?

There is a gargantuan difference between saying that your good works won't get you into heaven and saying that all you must do is "believe in Jesus."

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward everyman according to his works.

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Romans 2:12-13 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

2 Timothy: 2-19 Nevertheless, the foundation of God standeth sure, having the seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

James 2:20-24 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son uponthe altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

I just don't get how people can simply ignore all of these!

Matthew7:21 Not every one that saith unto me,Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.


Father’s will is to believe unto His Son

John 6:40 For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."


John 6:28 and 29 Then said they unto him, what shall we dothat we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them “This is the Work of God, that you believe on Him who he has sent. "


Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Fatherwith his angels; and then he shall reward everyman according to his works.


The verse did not say “I shall let every man in heaven according to his works” but “shall reward every man according to his works.”

When you make it to heaven through faith in Jesus, you’re rewarded with crowns based on works. There are rewards in heaven for what is done here on earth. But you have to be in heaven in order to get the reward!


John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, yeshall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abidein his love.


This verse says you will abide in his love if you keep the commandments, not you will enter heaven if you keep the commandments.

Romans2:12-13 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as havesinned in the law shall be judged by the law; for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.


Jesus died on the cross, so if we believe in him, we are already justified.

Romans 5:9 Much more then, having now been justifiedby His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath ofGod through Him.


2 Timothy: 2-19 Nevertheless, the foundation of God standeth sure,having the seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name ofChrist depart from iniquity.


This verse doesn’t support works-based salvation.

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect,
he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them thatobey him.


What were we supposed to obey? “This is the works of God, that you believe on him whom he has sent.”

James 2:20-24 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he hadoffered Isaac his son uponthe altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with hisworks, and by works wasfaith made perfect? Yesee then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.


Abraham was justified by works after he was saved. Faith produces works.


James 2:18 “Yay aman may say that thou has faith and I have works, well show me thy faith without thy works (it doesn’t exist), and I will show you my faith by my works.


Matthew 9:2 “Theybrought a man sick with the palsy to Jesus, and Jesus seeing their faith said to the man sick with the palsy, be of good cheer, thy sins are forgiven, seeing their faith. [/color]


Their faith produced works. These works were bringing the man to Jesus, knowing he would heal. Faith moves people.


Praying is works, reading the Bible is works, believing in God are all works. You need faith first before you do these things.


Faith alone produces works.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by daylux

Faith alone produces works.

If only that were the case.

[Jerwade]

Originally Posted by Pleroo

"For the kingdom of God is... righteousness and peace and joy."

...within you.