West Logan Square isn't getting any better (Chicago, Waukegan: fit in, real estate)

[HamlinandLyndale]

My grandparents owned a house on 3745 W Lyndale for 48 years before selling in 1989. This neighborhood was once a mix of Polish, German and also Italian and Irish. The Poles were the number one group. Remember Logan Square also goes from Kedzie to Pulaski. My mother graduated from Kelvyn Park in Hermosa in 1978. Kelvyn and West Logan Square were starting to change in the late 70's. I lived in the area from 1982-1991 and it's my hertiage but I hate what it has became. We left in 1991 because the place had turned so bad. The areas around the Blvd have improved nicely but people forget that the backbone of Logan square was Fullerton Ave. Fullerton used to be loaded with great resturants all the way from Western to Pulaski back in the day. It sounds racist but ask yourself this if the Polish and not the Puerto Ricans were still the number one group would this area be like this? My family blames the Puerto Ricans for all the decline in the area. I have a couple of Puerto Rican cousins and they are good people. However most of the ones who live in Logan Square are scum. Do you think West Logan Square can ever make a comeback?

[Johnny Northside]

It will need a real estate enema, the likes of which have happened only in areas of Chicago closer to the lake and/or frequent, reliable public transportation. Despite the Healy Metra stop, the west part of Logan Square is at the gateway of a number of west by northwest neighborhoods with the arrow pointed down. Being attached to the eastern part of Logan Square may be its only saving grace, but I wouldn't expect much improvement soon given the current RE conditions -- same goes for Avondale, etc.

[surlycue]

My opinion is just based on being a young woman who looks white but I have never felt any serious danger in Logan Square and I know plenty of "yuppies" that own places as far west as Central Park and have not experienced any issues. When I lived in Logan Square I took many a long late night stroll home from Alice's on Belmont and Central Park and though I'm anal about holding my mace anytime I'm walking after dark I never once felt tempted to use it.

As another poster mentioned on a recent thread most crime is gang or drug specific and your odds of being wounded or killed in one of those wrong place at the wrong time situations is so slim that I certainly would not let it prevent me from going about my daily routine as I do in Old Town now or in Humboldt Park where I'm likely moving in the new year.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by HamlinandLyndale

It sounds racist but ask yourself this if the Polish and not the Puerto Ricans were still the number one group would this area be like this? My family blames the Puerto Ricans for all the decline in the area. I have a couple of Puerto Rican cousins and they are good people. However most of the ones who live in Logan Square are scum. Do you think West Logan Square can ever make a comeback?

It could make a comeback, absolutely, but people have been saying that for a long time now. I lived near the Square about 15 years ago (man, time flies), not too long after you left. Even then, Logan Square was considered an "up and coming" area -- the next logical domino in the gentrification chain that was going down at the time in west Lincoln Park and West Town.

I went back fairly recently. While there have been some visible improvements in the immediate area where I used to live, the area as a whole still looks a bit salty, and certainly didn't catch fire like I thought it would. Of course, I don't live there day to day but my general gut feeling told me that the neighborhood still has a ways to go.

Not to get PC here (I'm usually the last guy to do that) but it's totally irrelevant whether it would be better if this group stayed and that group never came in. You can't change it so why bother lamenting? The point is that Logan Square's future depends on an influx of young professionals and DINKs to improve it. And in that regard, there's a lot of often safer competition among City neighborhoods and even inner-ring suburbs.

[williepotatoes]

West Logan Square will never gentrify, because it doesn't have the type of housing stock that suits the new urban pioneers. From Kedzie to Pulaski you have an ocean of apartment dwellings that were built a hundred years ago for the lower working classes, both naturals and immigrants. These apartments are usually pretty short on square footage and the accompanying creature comforts that the upwardly mobile expect in a domicile. A 9 x 9 master bedroom just doesn't work for most people these days.

The west square is today, what it will always be. A place where immigrants make their first landing in America.

[chicagocubs]

Originally Posted by HamlinandLyndale

My grandparents owned a house on 3745 W Lyndale for 48 years before selling in 1989. This neighborhood was once a mix of Polish, German and also Italian and Irish. The Poles were the number one group. Remember Logan Square also goes from Kedzie to Pulaski. My mother graduated from Kelvyn Park in Hermosa in 1978. Kelvyn and West Logan Square were starting to change in the late 70's. I lived in the area from 1982-1991 and it's my hertiage but I hate what it has became. We left in 1991 because the place had turned so bad. The areas around the Blvd have improved nicely but people forget that the backbone of Logan square was Fullerton Ave. Fullerton used to be loaded with great resturants all the way from Western to Pulaski back in the day. It sounds racist but ask yourself this if the Polish and not the Puerto Ricans were still the number one group would this area be like this? My family blames the Puerto Ricans for all the decline in the area. I have a couple of Puerto Rican cousins and they are good people. However most of the ones who live in Logan Square are scum. Do you think West Logan Square can ever make a comeback?

Don't forget the Scandinavians! My Norwegian grandmother lived on Troy, off Kedzie & Diversey and we went to the Norwegian church nearby. She had neighbours from Sweden, Denmark and, of course, Norway.

Back in the day (early 70's) when we moved out of there, people were complaining about the Puerto Ricans and Cubans, so, that is not new. But, I fail to see how they were a real problem except that the other ethnic groups felt threatened. My mother graduated from Kelvyn Park, too, but, in the 40's. I went to James Monroe and graduated from there in 1970.

As I drove through the old neighbourhood a year or so ago, it looks like it is improving and a Polish family owns my old house (they have their Polish flag flying out front). I hope that it does gentrify because that was/is a great area.

[JoeyPants]

I don't have a crystal ball like the other posters on here do, so I really don't know what West Logan Square will look like in the future, but I can tell you that I see a big time difference from when I first lived there in 2002 to now. Our condo building alone went from a mix of working class families and immigrants to predominately single professionals. A yuppie place like Dunlay's would have never lasted in 2000. Even Lula's Cafe went from serving Denver Omlettes to organic tofu and North African dishes.

My guess, and it's only a guess is that any gentrification in that area will resemble previous gentrification patterns, which has traditionally occured close to mass transit. I don't think there has been any neighborhood that has gentrified that is not very close to mass transit. The problem with West Logan Square, particularly the southern edge is that it's far from the blue line. So the logical progression of development would continue along the blue line, in Avondale and Irving Park. As stated, this is just a guess, and anything can change.

[HamlinandLyndale]

For me the only good thing about West Humbolt Park is Jimmy's hot dogs, which our still the best ever in my view. My Mother and I used to go to our doctors on Grand and Division in the 80's. That area was and still is a very bad place. I personally think after the Our Lady of Angels fire this area was doomed. The middle class Italians who dominated this area left in droves because it was too painfull to stay. My Grandparents had 12 kids in Catholic schools and this had an impact on everybody. I know this had a spillover effect on Logan square. Maybe if the Italians stay in West Humbolt park maybe the area doesn't die and maybe West Logan Square survives. Remember Our lady of Angels was nearly 2 miles due South of Our Lady of Grace my families parish on Ridgeway. Does anybody think things would have been different without the fire? Would the area maybe have not gotten so bad? My Grandparents were at St Anne's hospital on Cicero and Division and watched those kids brought in. It was a very sad deal!

[emathias]

Originally Posted by chicagocubs

Don't forget the Scandinavians! My Norwegian grandmother lived on Troy, off Kedzie & Diversey and we went to the Norwegian church nearby. She had neighbours from Sweden, Denmark and, of course, Norway.
...

And who can forget Knute Rockne grew up there!

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by williepotatoes

West Logan Square will never gentrify, because it doesn't have the type of housing stock that suits the new urban pioneers. From Kedzie to Pulaski you have an ocean of apartment dwellings that were built a hundred years ago for the lower working classes, both naturals and immigrants. These apartments are usually pretty short on square footage and the accompanying creature comforts that the upwardly mobile expect in a domicile. A 9 x 9 master bedroom just doesn't work for most people these days.

The west square is today, what it will always be. A place where immigrants make their first landing in America.

The physical size and style of housing is very hard to change unless an area gets so pricey that teardowns become common. Even the downtown conversions of office type buildings into condos or hotels is brutally expensive -- developers hate to sink in the big dollars upfront to configure spaces to make the sorts of high end bathrooms, spacious bedrooms and dramatic living spaces that buyers have grown accustomed to.

Same sorts of dynamic is at work in LOTS of places. Homes that were built in a time period that tiny kitchens and bathrooms are just not worth 'saving' in most towns. If those places also have bedrooms that get completely filled with a king sized bed you can basically forget about having appeal to anyone that actually shops new houses or furniture...

I can think of many areas in the region that fit into such a category, and I generally try to steer folks away from such a mistake. There is a saying among developers " I am not rich enough or crazy enough to turn that around" and the basic idea is that you would need such deep pockets to buy up so much stuff and redevelop a GIANT area that you would truly have to money to burn and /or a irrational attachment to redeveloping an area like that when your money could get a better return in so many other places. The other day there was a thread about the "desirable" portion of Waukegan and the thought popped into my head that IF you could afford to buy up tens of thousands of housing units in that town you MIGHT be able to turn it around as the nearness to Lake Michigan is extraordinary (though the waterfront is mess), the convenience to high paying jobs in Lake Co is hard to beat, the access to Chicago via Metra could be quite nice, and potential to "do things right" with well planned developments of appropriate urban-ish density is huge IF the planets align and you could finance a "new birth" of a town that is pretty deep in the ashes of a manufacturing past...