Help! There is ice in my condo!!! (Chicago: house, contractor)

[snoylekim]

Yup .. check the caulking but watch the humidifier if you have one as the previous post suggests ..Our association handbook has a warning about cold weather, large glass windows w/metal frames , and humidifier condensation. The metal frames are really nice conductors, so they also serve as nice condensers.. really surprised that happened today, though..would have expected that a few weeks ago with below zero weather

[Lookout Kid]

How high off the ground are you? Caulk can only do so much if your are facing high winds. But I really don't think any sort of weather seal is the issue here.

Is the condensation on the inside face of glass? You see condensation like this when cold glass comes into contact with humidity. Normally you might see this type of condensation if you're taking a shower or boiling some water. Or if you're running the A.C. on a really humid day (but then the condensation would be on the opposite face of glass).

Do you have a humidifier on your furnace?

[Basekamp]

yes you really need to look at your heating unit and post us details on that. The windows looked as I envisioned them, it is definitely 100% not a leak.

[chet everett]

I would NOT recommend doing ANY caulking.

You have too much moisture in your condo. Get an accurate "Indoor Relative Humidity" measure and I can just about guarantee that you are way over the recommended moisture, Humidity Settings vs. Temperature / Humidity Tables . As that article makes clear the COLDER it gets the LESS your INDOOR relative humidity SHOULD be.

If you have a building that has acceptable ventilation of the BATHROOM you MUST turn that exhaust fan ON when you shower or use the bathtub AND leave it on until the relative falls. Similarly you should exhaust the moisture from the KITCHEN whenever you are boiling large amount of water or even doing a lot of dishes by hand!

Caulk is NOT what you need! There is a nearly SOLID layer of condensation of the GLASS of your sliding window!

I hate windows that have metal on the inside, but there is no way to switch that now. In the future, try to find places that have better window construction / insulation. The cold on the outside turns those metal frames into a condensation nightmare.

If you can direct the HEAT from any registers in your unit TOWARD the windows (even if that means using some low speed fans to help push the heat...) that if preferable to anything else. The WARMER air should hold more moisture and keep it from causing such a condensation problem!

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by chet everett

I hate windows that have metal on the inside, but there is no way to switch that now. In the future, try to find places that have better window construction / insulation. The cold on the outside turns those metal frames into a condensation nightmare.

This isn't an issue with a well-designed metal window frame or mullion system. A well-designed metal system will be thermally broken between inside and outside, and will account for drainage of water that collects on the window (usually with weep holes).

Originally Posted by chet everett

If you can direct the HEAT from any registers in your unit TOWARD the windows (even if that means using some low speed fans to help push the heat...) that if preferable to anything else. The WARMER air should hold more moisture and keep it from causing such a condensation problem!

Typically for a building with lots of glass you will have diffusers for perimiter heat along the entire exterior envelope (or anyhwere with a significant amount of glass). However, your condo developer may have elected to not pay for perimeter heating. Look for this next time you have a lot of exterior glass!

[chet everett]

Right on LK! I knew your archi knowledge would nail this!

I would guess that the developer of this builder is mostly at fault -- residents can't be expected to know all the details of the "right way" to make sure the windows are built and the heating systems installed.

Condo association would have to do a massive special assessment o upgrade to the high quality glazing systems all at once, and doing it piece meal would look terrible.

[linicx]

Sliding windows/doors are a problem in cold weather. Replace it. Instead of the sliders I would intall Vinyl clad wood frame French Doors. Vinyl clad is much better than aluminum frames and it is not nearly as cold. I have an uninsulated summer room with the vinyl clad windows and had no frost, dripping or ice on any of the 10 windows or door. The room has independent heat/air system. No problems with or without heat. No problems with my wood frame windows in the house. And it did get below zero this year. I did not have trouble during or after the ice storm.

I believe it is the nature of metal such as aluminum to form frost and ice in the winter and sweat in the summer and leak cold air. I have never met an aluminum frame window that did not. I can remember the same problems in my parents new house sixty years ago. Aluminum farme windows was the fad of the decade. The aluminum frame windows do the same thing today that they did in the 40s.

A HUmifier adds water to the air. The DEhumidifer removes water from the air, and also dries out FURNITURE and anything else that is wood. Use it sparingly.

A humidifier properly installed on the furnace is a good thing beause the amount of humidity is set for your lcation and it is constant. Properly installed, it does not deliver too much humidity at any one time. It protects wood.

Good luck!

[jessiegirl_98]

Regarding who is responsible, I would say that this is internal damage completely and is your responsibility. We had a similar window issue in my small building where several units had damage. We were nice and because it seemed to actually be caused the the roof rather than the window itself, we said it was joint damage. If it is your window that is the problem (which it sounds like it is), you will likely have to be the one to take care of it.

[Lookout Kid]

Sliding doors are typically a poor-performing glazing system, and they're better suited to cheaply-constructed suburban homes. Unfortunately, condo developers in Chicago have been cheaping out on their exterior wall systems for several years now.

[chet everett]

If you look at the many photos that the OP posted this does NOT appear to be any sort of an air leak or water leak. This appears to be a double pane window that is intact. There is a MASSIVE amount of condensation on the surface of the pane that is where one can wipe it off -- THIS IS 100% a sign of much too high an indoor relative relative humidity.

The SAME thing would happen with ANY sort of frame / mullion -- the technical name for the two panes of glass and the spacers inside is a "sealed glazing unit" and when that has a solid layer of condensation if shows that there is just too much moisture in the place AND the windows are NOT being kept warm by a well designed perimeter air flow.

There is really no sign of this being a maintenance issue for the overall building. It is true that this dripping water can do damage inside the unit. The OP / unit owner should take steps to REDUCE indoor relative humidity, direct warm air toward the glazing, dry up any water before it does damage and keep everything clean.

There is nothing to suggest the SEALED units of the windows are broken, simply that the DESIGN of the overall glazing system is NOT particularly good and the chosen system probably does not have a particularly good "thermal break" but that is NOT something that an individual unit owner can do anything about, unless the HOA is OK with each owner doing their own patio doors, which would look pretty odd...