01-29-2009, 02:13 PM
Location: Chicago: Beverly, Woodlawn
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For kicks you should take a drive on Longwood drive from 95 to 111th, then go up the hill and do same on Seely, Hoyne, etc. Even better is the area against the Dan Ryan Woods. Some of the best homes in the city limits ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sukwoo
. Can't comment much on Beverly since I don't know it very well.
01-29-2009, 02:13 PM
Location: Bridgeport
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Hey At1,
I don't think this has to do with color. I really don't. It is simply a matter of too many bad people in one area. That is the whole problem. Chinatown used to be crimeridden - because Chinese are more proned to crime - no simply a large number of bad people in one area. Pilsen was disgustingly bad - because Mexicans are more incline. No! Now, Pilsen is being revived (slowly, though). Once again, it is because too many bad people, who happened to be Mexican were concentrated in one area. My whole point on this is if white people stayed and allowed neighborhoods to become integrated slowly until stabilizing; there will not be too many gangbangers/poor people etc. concentrated in one area. THis is what plagues are country; not the fact that black people are all together; or mexicans are all together etc.
Even in my neighborhood; which is pretty well integrated there still seems to be a good amount of crime. Why is this? Because poverty is prevalent. Too many poor/struggling people in a small area.
This is what needs to be stopped in our city, and I"m guessing elsewhere in the country.
01-29-2009, 02:15 PM
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Then we have to address why there is poverty. What causes one to be poor? For every 1 poor person who busts their behind and betters themselves there are at least 5 others who end up having kids as a teenager, dabble in a life of crime, or simply do NOT contribute to society. we can't simply hand these people money based off the number of children they have or based on their inability to be assertive and obtain a job. the problem is there are millions of people who are impoverished and prefer to abuse the system and get a free ride simply because they can. The problem is morality and many poor people don't share the same values as those of people who get up every day and work for a living. And since poor people have more kids, the circle just keeps getting bigger and bigger which further contributes to the fall of the American standard.
01-29-2009, 02:17 PM
Location: Bridgeport
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Hey guys,
Since my thoughts/comments are somewhat well received here. And, since I have respect for many of you here as you all are very thoughtful. I'd like to pose a question.
How do you suggest I start to become involved in city/neighborhood development? Do I simply approach my alderman's office? This is what I'm thinking. I work full time and take classes; so, I don't have very much free time; but local politics/development has always been something I have taken a liking to, and I'd like to start to get involved on a limited basis.
Anybody have any thoughts?
Thanks,
JR
01-29-2009, 02:22 PM
Location: Bridgeport
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Why is there poverty?!?!?!
I think that is simple. It is easier than working hard
I think to fix poverty is simple. Give opportunites to the younger generations. That is waht irritates me about this city so much - the school systems. From my perspective, (attended a private high school with my mom teaching in cps), the kids of the cps are given very limited resources. I know for a fact I would not be where I am today without my upbringing. If I were in the CPS, as I think is the case with the vast majority of those born to the upper middle class, I would have not have succeeded. Why is this? Because success was easy for me. It was practically given to me by going to private high school and grade school. I mean I would have to had stood out on the bad side to not be allowed in college. Unfortunately for today's city kids, it is the opposite. They have to stand out to make it to college. That is where all our resrouces need to be shed. I am conservative by nature and free hand me outs irriate me. But not for kids. I think all of our city's resrouces should be focused to protecting the kids of our neighborhoods. Every child is born with the potential to succeed. This is just taken away at an early age for the majority of the inner city youth.
01-29-2009, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
jpramire
I agree with both ajotol and sukwoo.
This is definitely a self-fulfilling prophesy. I think one way to potentially stop it is to kill it before it builds steam. I mean I guess I could go preach to all these places that are beginning to change and tell people to stop; but, I don't think taht is very practical
...
A quick though on places like Beverly, Oak Park. I think what protected these places was the inherent value these neighborhoods possessed. White people, although potentially still racist valued their homes/locations too much to even think about giving them up. From my limited experience, I know Oak Park and Beverly have extremely beautiful unique homes that maybe do not exist in places like South Shore/Gresham. I know for sure, they do not exist to as much a degree in Ashburn, which is, by the way, completely changed from my understanding. I mean think about it from a white person's perspecitve. Stay in Ashburn and potentially lose 1/2 your home's value, endanger your family; or pack up and move and start life a few more miles SW with just about the same home. Easy choice.
The last part of this shows you agree with the way I see it, but you mentioning racism shows we disagree somewhat. I think the pattern is so ingrained that racism is no longer important.
The collective knowledge is that once minorities start to move in, it is only a couple of decades until the area is crap. Beverly is an exception on the South Side and Homewood and Flossmoor are showing some resistance to this trend, but these pale next to the 40 or so other examples of neighborhoods and suburbs in the Southland that followed along like clockwork.
As it is for stocks, it doesn't matter what Microsoft is worth, it's what everyone thinks it is worth and will be worth in the future. The marketplace for homes is still just a marketplace. And as sukwoo describes, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. If everyone thinks homes will be worth less in 15 years, they will fetch less in the marketplace today. That's all it takes. It doesn't require any concrete measurable changes in schools, crime, etc.
To see the power of this, just look what happened with the current housing crisis. For twenty years, housing prices kept going up, so people thought they would always keep going up in places like Florida, Las Vegas, Phoenix, and Chicago exurban areas. The perception was enough to keep the market price rising, and only extraordinary events were enough to finally get the market price to start reflecting the intrinsic value of the housing again.
So it's no longer about racism. I mean for some people it is, but these few are not enough to change the trajectory of the marketplace. For the rest, their homes are worth less as soon as the first black families move in, and only go down from there, so might as well sell right away.
I don't know how you break the pattern. A few more powerful examples like Beverly and Oak Park will help. It will eventually break, as any "asset bubble" (here in the opposite sense of usual) always does. I really hope I live long enough to see some of these beautiful South Side areas recover. Supposedly the housing stock in South Shore (that you mentioned) is actually gorgoeus. I've never been through there myself. I hope I get a chance to check it out sometime.
01-29-2009, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
At1WithNature
It's comments like these that are just so silly and show the degree of white guilt that plagues this country. Look at the prisons, look at the statistics, you know good and well which races are responsible for the most crimes and murders.
I support that opinion, as well, but I don't think we will ever know for certain.
I would say that no, you are right. they're no America but Africa is where the poorest of the poor are and it's been this way for thousands of years.
only someone who does not love or care for their families would "accept" lower education standards, more litter, and higher crime.
All very true and well said.
01-29-2009, 02:38 PM
Location: Wheaton, Illinois
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
jpramire
Every child is born with the potential to succeed. This is just taken away at an early age for the majority of the inner city youth.
No, some people are stupid and will never succeed. Others are too lazy to succeed.
Expanding education makes it possible for some to succeed but ignores the fact that there simply aren't enough good paying jobs for everyone to make a good living. If everybody had a good education and worked hard too you'd still have those lousy paying jobs out there only they'd be filled by educated people. There's much of that now anyway.
I saw the West Side go down the drain in the 1960s and 70s and I have liitle use for lectures on what should'a-could'a. You deal with things as they are. Neighborhoods went from safe to unsafe so fast it'd make your head spin. As an individual you have little power dealing with immense social forces and changes. So when it's time to go you go.
Last edited by Irishtom29; 01-29-2009 at 02:46 PM ..
01-29-2009, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
At1WithNature
thanks for the top notch quality post that is dripping in experience and truth. my only comment is how can you blame the families that moved out once the neighborhood started changing? They were smart enough to get out before the curb. before their pet dog escaped and was killed by neighborhood gang bangers in a dog fight. they were able to leave before their son was assaulted on his way to school. they were able to leave before their house or auto was burglarized.
(in chicago) never has there been a case where an all white neighborhood has 1 or 2 different families move in and then the immigration stops. it's a sign of things to come. whether those houses open up to the market through natural causes such as death or what not, bottomline is the 1st few minority families to move in are like scouts. they'll spread the word talking about how much better their new neighborhood and new schools are and soon many others, like them or worse than them, will follow. right or wrong, that is not the point. the point is, i wouldn't blame the people who moved out because they realized the neighborhood was changing and soon would do a complete 180. they were smart enough to get out when they could and get the most bang for their buck without endangering the lives of their loved ones. you can call them racists but they ended up being 100% right about the future of their neighborhood and were smart enough to be one of the firsts to act.
So true, the first minority families to move in the area are always solid. Its what follows them that is scary- it becomes a package deal and word spreads fast. seen it happen too many times.
01-29-2009, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Irishtom29
If everybody had a good education and worked hard too you'd still have those lousy paying jobs out there only they'd be filled by educated people. There's much of that now anyway.
Hey but if it wasn't for my lousy paying job this educated person would have never found this forum!
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Most Common Occupations - Fire fighting and prevention, and other protective service workers including supervisors (%)
Most Common Occupations - Law enforcement workers including supervisors (%)
Most Common Occupations - Food preparation and serving related occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Building and grounds cleaning and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Personal care and service occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Sales and office occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Sales and related occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Office and administrative support occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Natural resources, construction, and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Farming, fishing, and forestry occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Construction and extraction occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Installation, maintenance, and repair occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production, transportation, and material moving occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Transportation occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Material moving occupations (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - Correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)