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I was doing both. In retrospect, I should have read the actually helpful responses you received before commenting. I'm sorry to say that a lot of Chicago internet commenters are determined to see the city fail, while a lot of NY-ers treat it like a joke.
So, apologies.
Anyway, if it's any help, IMO Crain's Chicago and WBEZ are the best news sources in the region and following them for a few months might give you a solid picture as to the economic and school situation. DNA Chicago is fairly exhaustive on the crime. I get the feeling the city might wind up turning a corner on crime over the next year or so, as gun-offense penalties are stiffened and Johnson's management filters through.
No worries. Will check out the resources you mentioned.
One thing I will say is that while I'm not sure about the viewpoints of the NYers on this forum since I haven't spent much time on here, all the NYers I know IRL have good things to say about Chicago. Maybe it's because my friends and acquaintances know I'm from the area and are trying to avoid insulting me, but I've never heard any rude or derogatory comments about "flyover country," lack of culture, and the like from NYC/east coast natives. To be honest with you, the only people I've heard those comments from are NYC transplants who are originally from the midwest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett
The OP really should look at a Metra timetable! When I get on the BNSF at the end of the day the 5:32PM train pulls into the Hinsdale Highlands stations at 5:52PM. Everyday. Like a clock. Twenty minutes beats the heck out a ride on even the speediest CTA lines out of the Loop, plus the seats are wide, padded, and fully air-conditioned. If the worker bees need (want...) to spend 12 hour days in an office they can get downtown at 5:32AM via the slightly slower 5:05AM train, though in all honesty the majority of successful folks I know working in the markets rarely spend that much time at work. Relying on Metra makes it easy to establish a pattern where one accomplishes their work in 9hrs or less...
I would also suggest that if OP's spouse is hooked on 16 hour days the various walkable 4AM bars in Chicago are only going to make life worse for everyone in the long run. The walkable spots to get a nice craft beer that shut down at more reasonable hours in the burbs are reflective of the BALANCE that truly successful adults realize is essential.
The only vaguely helpful thing I got from this post is that there is a 20-minute express train to Hinsdale. It's not my husband's or my choice to work long hours; our industries demand it. Neither of us works in the markets, and the last thing either of us would want to do after a long night at work is hit up a bar and give ourselves a nice hangover for when we inevitably had to be in the office early the next day. But thanks for your insight on how we should live our lives.
My point was that one of the benefits of Chicago's reliance on commuters who adapt to the schedule of Metra is that the vast majority of successful workers also understand the benefits of life-work balance.
While I have had periods where there were demands on my time that required my presence in the office for more than 9-10 hours they are quite rare. The level of "desertedness" that Chicago's business district(s) exhibit after even 7 or 8PM is generally seen as a GOOD THING by people that recognize the value of a healthy lifestyle. While there are a handful of folks whose schedules are such that they do match the hours of global markets in Asia or Europe even those folks are not typically expected to be able to deliver productivity to their firms for 16 hrs a day.
Many of my neighbors, be they attorneys, finance professionals, IT professionals, strategic business executives, or those involved in healthcare may occasionally bring some work home, but none of them consistently spend even 12 hrs a day in their offices.
There is certainly a different kind of culture among the hard-charging types in NYC and those that largely end up just as well regarded in the Chicago offices of their successful firms and I believe some of that difference can be traced to the decidedly 24x7 mindset that dominates NYC vs a more humane standard that infuses Chicago. I would hope that anyone would appreciate the benefits of the latter.
You should move to Chicago. Chicago is a great livable big city. You can own a car and still drive around without constant gridlock. Or you can walk, bike, el or bus to tons of events going on all the time. Not to mention a huge freshwater ocean close by. There's not too many other cities in the US with those qualities (NY, Boston, DC, SF). The cost of living is higher in those areas and with Chicago you'll be close to family.
On the other hand Chicago and Illinois financial situation is an absolute disaster. There will be tax hikes, pension cuts and possibly bankruptcy in the next 10 years. However, the odd thing is that all of that requires either (1) a constitutional referendum or (2) change in the law to actually allow Illinois to file for bankruptcy. I don't worry about Chicago because it's an awesome beautiful city. I worry about the rest of Illinois though because it's basically Nebraska...and people will flee the flatlands if taxes get too high...Chicago not so much...but the whole state is in this mess so what happens downstate will affect Chicagoans and vice versa. Bottom line is it's going to get much worse before it gets better.
My suggestion to you is to move to Chicago and RENT. This will allow you the flexibility to see what happens in Chicago over the next 10 years. After all, you have to own a home for 5-7 years to simply break even on the closing costs, taxes, fees, stamps, maintenance, etc. And are you really going to buy a home for the next 40 years??? Life happens and plans change. If so...more power to you and buy one and wait out the storm. But if I was moving to Chicago now I would rent for the next 10...see what happens...then buy for the next 30.
You should move to Chicago. Chicago is a great livable big city. You can own a car and still drive around without constant gridlock. Or you can walk, bike, el or bus to tons of events going on all the time. Not to mention a huge freshwater ocean close by. There's not too many other cities in the US with those qualities (NY, Boston, DC, SF). The cost of living is higher in those areas and with Chicago you'll be close to family.
On the other hand Chicago and Illinois financial situation is an absolute disaster. There will be tax hikes, pension cuts and possibly bankruptcy in the next 10 years. However, the odd thing is that all of that requires either (1) a constitutional referendum or (2) change in the law to actually allow Illinois to file for bankruptcy. I don't worry about Chicago because it's an awesome beautiful city. I worry about the rest of Illinois though because it's basically Nebraska...and people will flee the flatlands if taxes get too high...Chicago not so much...but the whole state is in this mess so what happens downstate will affect Chicagoans and vice versa. Bottom line is it's going to get much worse before it gets better.
My suggestion to you is to move to Chicago and RENT. This will allow you the flexibility to see what happens in Chicago over the next 10 years. After all, you have to own a home for 5-7 years to simply break even on the closing costs, taxes, fees, stamps, maintenance, etc. And are you really going to buy a home for the next 40 years??? Life happens and plans change. If so...more power to you and buy one and wait out the storm. But if I was moving to Chicago now I would rent for the next 10...see what happens...then buy for the next 30.
Good point about renting vs. buying. One of the reasons we like Chicago is because we could actually afford to be homeowners there as opposed to NYC, but the rents are significantly cheaper as well, so we would save money with either option. While it's annoying to continue throwing money down a black hole by renting as opposed to building equity in a home, it does afford us a lot more flexibility down the line.
We're thinking of a 2 bed/2 bath, max 3 bed condo, staying there for the next 5-7 years (probably closer to 7), and reassessing at that point. We would love to buy a long-term home soon if we could in order to lock in a low rate, but as you said, that's not a terribly realistic idea. I figure high property taxes will get us regardless of whether we buy or rent, either because we're paying them ourselves or our landlord is passing costs on to us, but we don't want to find ourselves in a situation where we are barely breaking even or even losing money on a home purchase.
If you're making the move to be close to family (you're probably thinking about having a family and want to be close to your parents) it makes perfect sense and I think it's a great idea.
If, however, you're making the move to get "mini NYC lifestyle on the cheap" you are guaranteed to be disappointed. Having lived in both cities, there is no comparison in terms of urban amenities and no Chicago neighborhood will give you what you had in NYC. NYC basically ruins you in terms of urban standards, and Chicago will feel empty, quiet and a bit stagnant.
All that said, I would go with Lincoln Park or East Lakeview (south of Belmont) to start. Great neigborhoods. If things ever go truly south in Chicago, those neighborhoods will be the last to feel pain.
Good point about renting vs. buying. One of the reasons we like Chicago is because we could actually afford to be homeowners there as opposed to NYC, but the rents are significantly cheaper as well, so we would save money with either option. While it's annoying to continue throwing money down a black hole by renting as opposed to building equity in a home, it does afford us a lot more flexibility down the line.
We're thinking of a 2 bed/2 bath, max 3 bed condo, staying there for the next 5-7 years (probably closer to 7), and reassessing at that point. We would love to buy a long-term home soon if we could in order to lock in a low rate, but as you said, that's not a terribly realistic idea. I figure high property taxes will get us regardless of whether we buy or rent, either because we're paying them ourselves or our landlord is passing costs on to us, but we don't want to find ourselves in a situation where we are barely breaking even or even losing money on a home purchase.
You should definitely rent. The most common misconception about owning a home is that it's an investment. It's not. It is an expense. Anything you have to make monthly payments toward is an expense (food, clothing, housing, etc.) You may think renting is throwing money down a black hole but the flexibility and freedom it provides is awesome. Plus over the 5-7 years you'll be paying for maintenance on that condo and in 7 years your condo will likely look a bit dated requiring some updates. Then you get to pay a realtor 5% to sell it and then all the closing costs, fees, taxes, stamps etc.....all while keeping your fingers crossed that Chicago home prices don't plummet after the financial situation hits the fan. If they do then can you imagine the black hole you're in then?
Low rates are never going away. Rates have been low for 8 years now and countries are even turning towards negative rates to stave off deflation. They will still be historically low in the next 5-7 years. Only because politicians do not want to go back to the Jimmy Carter years of high interest rates. And they would have to gradually raise them so maybe it's 5% or 6% max in 7 years so it's doable.
If you're making the move to be close to family (you're probably thinking about having a family and want to be close to your parents) it makes perfect sense and I think it's a great idea.
If, however, you're making the move to get "mini NYC lifestyle on the cheap" you are guaranteed to be disappointed. Having lived in both cities, there is no comparison in terms of urban amenities and no Chicago neighborhood will give you what you had in NYC. NYC basically ruins you in terms of urban standards, and Chicago will feel empty, quiet and a bit stagnant.
All that said, I would go with Lincoln Park or East Lakeview (south of Belmont) to start. Great neigborhoods. If things ever go truly south in Chicago, those neighborhoods will be the last to feel pain.
Much more the former, but you're right, it's a bit of both. I will say that we're getting tired of the hectic pace of life in NYC, so some quietness would be welcome. Also, our options are basically to move to Chicago or NYC suburbs (have decided against the outer boroughs for a host of reasons), and I bet the latter will be a lot quieter with less to do than Chicago, so there's that. We aren't interested in throwing cities into the mix where we have no ties whatsoever, which rules out anywhere other than these two.
The gist I get from the replies I've received so far is that while there are a lot of great options in terms of neighborhoods, Lincoln Park, while expensive, is probably the place for us to be.
You should definitely rent. The most common misconception about owning a home is that it's an investment. It's not. It is an expense. Anything you have to make monthly payments toward is an expense (food, clothing, housing, etc.) You may think renting is throwing money down a black hole but the flexibility and freedom it provides is awesome. Plus over the 5-7 years you'll be paying for maintenance on that condo and in 7 years your condo will likely look a bit dated requiring some updates. Then you get to pay a realtor 5% to sell it and then all the closing costs, fees, taxes, stamps etc.....all while keeping your fingers crossed that Chicago home prices don't plummet after the financial situation hits the fan. If they do then can you imagine the black hole you're in then?
Low rates are never going away. Rates have been low for 8 years now and countries are even turning towards negative rates to stave off deflation. They will still be historically low in the next 5-7 years. Only because politicians do not want to go back to the Jimmy Carter years of high interest rates. And they would have to gradually raise them so maybe it's 5% or 6% max in 7 years so it's doable.
All fair points. Our timeline is a bit wonky since we're older than many first-time homeowners due to living in NYC for all of our 20s, so we're in a place where we can't afford a "forever home" quite yet but we'd need to buy a somewhat large and therefore expensive place in order for buying to make any sense whatsoever. If we stayed and bought in NYC we'd be confident of making a profit, but the situation in IL/Chicago is much more volatile with the upcoming tax increases, so having the flexibility to easily pack up and move to the suburbs if necessary is good.
All fair points. Our timeline is a bit wonky since we're older than many first-time homeowners due to living in NYC for all of our 20s, so we're in a place where we can't afford a "forever home" quite yet but we'd need to buy a somewhat large and therefore expensive place in order for buying to make any sense whatsoever. If we stayed and bought in NYC we'd be confident of making a profit, but the situation in IL/Chicago is much more volatile with the upcoming tax increases, so having the flexibility to easily pack up and move to the suburbs if necessary is good.
In terms of owning you're not too far behind the game, if you're even behind at all. Chicago also has a high renter vs owner ratio, although it's obviously not as high as NYC's. It's completely normal to still be renting in your late 20s in Chicago.
As for taxes though, I don't have the numbers in front, but I do recall reading around the time of the last property tax increase that Chicagoans are still paying less in property taxes than the majority of suburbanites in Chicagoland. Just something to keep in mind.
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