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The primary tenant will be responsible for all deposits / damage and you are obligated to the terms of their lease. The smart thing is to take dated photos and then send them a third party (like an attorney you have retained) if the primary lease holder tries to blame you the attorney will have the evidence that they did the damage. Even milquetoast lawyers like to write sternly worded letters when they have photos to back them up...
While I was planning to take the photos during initial inspection, I did not think of datestamping them - that's a great suggestion !
Uhm, and I do not have a lawyer on a retainer - that sounds like from a movie or something
This forums is so great ! You guys gave me more good suggestions in just few replies, than all my colleagues (across all companies I worked for) in 5 years of being in US ! This is truly a brainstorming !
By "on retainer" I mean you simply call the lawyer up ahead of time...
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe1024
While I was planning to take the photos during initial inspection, I did not think of datestamping them - that's a great suggestion !
Uhm, and I do not have a lawyer on a retainer - that sounds like from a movie or something
This forums is so great ! You guys gave me more good suggestions in just few replies, than all my colleagues (across all companies I worked for) in 5 years of being in US ! This is truly a brainstorming !
...and ask them to "review my lease at your standard hourly rate for real estate deals". That will probably be under $100 for their minimal effort. You then ask them if they are OK with potentially being your representation should you need their services down the road. They almost certainly will say, "Yes, but you have to pay me a nominal retainer." That means you write them another check for $100 as retainer down the road. You can then send them the envelope of dated pictures as soon as you move in and SHOULD THE NEED ARISE they already the info to say to the person that did the damage "My client has photographic evidence that the apartment was damaged prior to the beginning of their sublease agreement".
It may sound "movie talk" but I assure you that many real estate lawyers do make solid money just writing letter to get jerks to "back off"...
I think you might be underestimating the time it will take to find a unit and go through the closing process , from what info you've provided . A few suggestions :
- Use a local broker - The fee/commission for them is typically split with the sellers broker, meaning it's effectively paid by the seller . A good one can cull through listings, knows the process from offer through close , and will be very useful given you're moving into the area . They can save you shoe leather and time
- From the mortgage you're looking to acquire ( 5% down , probably 5 or 7 fixed ARM) , start shopping around . 5% down mortgages might be available again, but most I've heard of are government sponsored that will require documentation and validation of both your eligibility , plus not all units are eligible for such financing. For condos, lenders typically scrutinize the reserves, ratio of owners to renters, and some require the development to be specifically certified . Good part of that is they don't subsidize some of the horror scenarios Chet described . Even if the mortgage isn't subsidized , prepare for more scrutiny form any lender on any condo mortgage . There are some posters here that are/were in the mortgage business, so perhaps they can add their wisdom . These mortgages typically take a little longer to be approved , and could require more documentation from the Condo Association . Most professionally managed developments can turn these around quickly , but sometimes it's a dance with the lender over quality and content . Be prepared .
- At some point, retaining an attorney isn't a movie ; you'll need one once you've made an offer and for closing . I'm not sure if it's still legally required in Illinois , but even if not , wisdom suggests it's a darn good idea unless you have a good working knowledge of Illinois/Chicago/Cook County Real Estate procedures and 'traditions' .
- Your monthly outlay - worst case for your 5% mortgage suggests your lender will require property tax escrow payments monthly, and you'll have your Condo association fees , and possibly PMI . These three amounts could easily be 50% -100% of your total mortgage only portion .
Good luck . Thousands of Condos are sold and bought here every year, so not meant to frighten, just awareness as to what's coming . Hope you find a great place , and getting into it goes smoothly .
...and ask them to "review my lease at your standard hourly rate for real estate deals". That will probably be under $100 for their minimal effort. You then ask them if they are OK with potentially being your representation should you need their services down the road. They almost certainly will say, "Yes, but you have to pay me a nominal retainer." That means you write them another check for $100 as retainer down the road. You can then send them the envelope of dated pictures as soon as you move in and SHOULD THE NEED ARISE they already the info to say to the person that did the damage "My client has photographic evidence that the apartment was damaged prior to the beginning of their sublease agreement".
It may sound "movie talk" but I assure you that many real estate lawyers do make solid money just writing letter to get jerks to "back off"...
I had no idea you could afford a lawyer for, like $100 a service. I always thought that retainer for lawyers is a monthly fee ? Was probably wrong all the time...
For $100-$200, I'd definitely buy the piece of mind ! So, that's really good suggestion. One less thing to worry while searching for condo...
I think you might be underestimating the time it will take to find a unit and go through the closing process , from what info you've provided . A few suggestions :
Far from late - I'm still in NJ. I am, by definition, underestimating the whole process, as it's the first time for me. Which is why I'm here on these forums, as there're lots of knowledgeable people, willing to share their experience!
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoylekim
- Use a local broker - The fee/commission for them is typically split with the sellers broker, meaning it's effectively paid by the seller . A good one can cull through listings, knows the process from offer through close , and will be very useful given you're moving into the area . They can save you shoe leather and time
Except, you don't really choose them. You find some property on the internet, and it already has explicitly assigned the listing (selling) agent and usually also the buying agent. This is where the conflict of interest occurs. Both agents don't give a damn about what you want, they only want their commission. I've used about a dozen realtors in last 5 years, and it was same everywhere (save for one exception, but she's not longer the agent anyway).
We are more than willing to do our homework - take a look at the property building ourselves, without even engaging the agent. But at certain point you must include them. I do plan to study a bit on the whole process - I am certainly not going to let the agent drive the whole process with me being in the corner, not understanding what and why is happening.
Any ideas about good books on the subject, specific to Illinois area ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoylekim
- From the mortgage you're looking to acquire ( 5% down , probably 5 or 7 fixed ARM) , start shopping around . 5% down mortgages might be available again, but most I've heard of are government sponsored that will require documentation and validation of both your eligibility , plus not all units are eligible for such financing. For condos, lenders typically scrutinize the reserves, ratio of owners to renters, and some require the development to be specifically certified . Good part of that is they don't subsidize some of the horror scenarios Chet described . Even if the mortgage isn't subsidized , prepare for more scrutiny form any lender on any condo mortgage . There are some posters here that are/were in the mortgage business, so perhaps they can add their wisdom . These mortgages typically take a little longer to be approved , and could require more documentation from the Condo Association . Most professionally managed developments can turn these around quickly , but sometimes it's a dance with the lender over quality and content . Be prepared .
Yes, 5% down, 10 yrs, with ability to pay it off earlier. I have a couple scenarios in my excel sheet, when I pay extra $100-$800 a month, which reduces the total period. Ideally, I'd like to get it paid within 7 years.
From talking to one mortgage provider, I can get 5% without PMI, as those are quite expensive (you pay the insurance premium on whole amount, for the duration of whole mortgage).
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoylekim
- At some point, retaining an attorney isn't a movie ; you'll need one once you've made an offer and for closing . I'm not sure if it's still legally required in Illinois , but even if not , wisdom suggests it's a darn good idea unless you have a good working knowledge of Illinois/Chicago/Cook County Real Estate procedures and 'traditions' .
Any idea about the costs of the lawyer reviewing the process ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoylekim
- Your monthly outlay - worst case for your 5% mortgage suggests your lender will require property tax escrow payments monthly, and you'll have your Condo association fees , and possibly PMI . These three amounts could easily be 50% -100% of your total mortgage only portion .
Yeah, in city one has to be very cautious, as there are lots of properties where you pay more in assoc.fees, than you pay for mortgage I believe I filtered the list of all buildings in my target area sufficiently, by now. Question about yearly tax - do you pay it in one lump sum, or can you choose to pay it monthly ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoylekim
Good luck . Thousands of Condos are sold and bought here every year, so not meant to frighten, just awareness as to what's coming . Hope you find a great place , and getting into it goes smoothly .
Does not have to be smooth. I'm doing it, so I can then transfer the mortgage payments into tuition payments, so I adjusted my expectations for this to be a pretty rough, but necessary process.
A slightly, but only ever so slightly, off-topic question. Where do all the kids that score 80%+ in those good public elementary schools in city disappear ? Certainly they don't all go to private high schools ?
How else would one explain the drastic fall in the test scores for high school, while the exact same area, being served by an elementary school, had fantastic test scores ?
The problem for me is, that for example the Nettelhorst school is good for us only for next 3 yrs. But the Laleview High School looks like it's from a different area! I mean, regardless of how bad the teachers would be, you can't get a drop from 80-90% down to 40% from same kids.
What am I missing here ? Please don't tell me that to actually get a proper science/math-oriented high school we need to pay $12k+ each year ?
You can choose an agent .. you and they search for properties together ( they have the MLS access) and they'll deal with sellers broker ..I've done that twice .. you're not stuck with the sellers broker by any means . You can contact any of the brokers you've seen via online and tell them you're interested in buying , or find an independent realtor . I don't know of any books , but I do know some individuals , who aren't brokers by profession, but have had to deal with enough Real Estate matters such that they've taken the license prep courses at the local community colleges .
Taxes are paid twice a year ..no choice .. Due March 1st and September 1st ( it wasn't always this regular) . Taxes are paid in arrears , which means you're actually paying the taxes for the prior year . The amount the seller provides for this is a matter for the sales contract and closing ( since nobody really knows what the actual amount will be), because you're paying for the previous year when you weren't the owner . You might be able ( or required) to pay a monthly amount into an escrow account which will pay the taxes when due . You'll get the bill , with an indication there's a third party payer . Do not forget to apply for the homeowners exemption , as nothing carries over from one owner to the next .
Lawyers don't require a monthly retainer . Last time I closed , the attorney fee was 500.00 ..not sure where they are now , but it was recently , so I'm sure it's in the mid hundreds range . That included reviewing the sales contract and handling the closing .
Twice a year sounds good enough, though I'd personally prefer the monthly option (even if there was a higher amount - sort-of like an insurance) - but with condos, we're talking about the range of couple thousands, so it's not a big deal (say, compared to a house with taxes in the $20k range).
I didn't know you could actually choose a seller's agent. I guess, I'll do a search on some books online and go from there. Considering my current amount of knowledge, any book will be better than nothing...
you don't choose the sellers agent .. you get your own agent to help you with a search .. when you find a desirable property , your agent and the sellers agent will work on things like the sales contract, etc .. At close they split the commish .. Your agent represents you , and they get a piece of the sale, so they're your advocate .. 2 agents in the process .
Taxes are hard to predict , but with a condo , particularly a large development, the association has typically worked with an attorney to get a 'favorable' assessment .
A slightly, but only ever so slightly, off-topic question. Where do all the kids that score 80%+ in those good public elementary schools in city disappear ? Certainly they don't all go to private high schools ?
How else would one explain the drastic fall in the test scores for high school, while the exact same area, being served by an elementary school, had fantastic test scores ?
The problem for me is, that for example the Nettelhorst school is good for us only for next 3 yrs. But the Laleview High School looks like it's from a different area! I mean, regardless of how bad the teachers would be, you can't get a drop from 80-90% down to 40% from same kids.
What am I missing here ? Please don't tell me that to actually get a proper science/math-oriented high school we need to pay $12k+ each year ?
There are a whole range of logical but complex reasons that score fall pretty dramatically.
Firstly the tests given to the kids in Illinois grade schools are terribly weak. The suburbs that KILL the test would scores well into the 90%++ are not THAT great, those kids still probably average "C" letter grades on math tests the teachers design. The consultants that the write the test for the ISBE don't ask particuarlly challenging questions. Some say this was "by design" so parents did not rise up and demand better, others say it is a "you get what you pay for" thing and the Illinois State Board of Education has never invested in high quality tests. In contrast the high schools basically force EVERYONE to take the ACT and it is a MUCH more challenging assessment. That is a BIG part of what is "wrong".
Secondly the relative opportunity for kids under about 5th grade to really get far behind is pretty limited. Studies have shown that before middle school homework really does not matter. Similarly if some single parent decides to take the kiddies in younger grades with 'em to visit aunties in Atlanta, Mexico or even further the couple of missed days of school are probably not going to have make much difference. As kids get older the pace of learning gets more rapid. Extending spring break or winter break by a few days has MUCH greater impact. As kids get older their own choice to "skip school" really puts them behind the eight ball...
The impact of the segregation of higher performing students into the selective admissions high schools similarly has a HUGE IMPACT -- essentially the "regular" kids are not really regular at all but largely "behind' their peers in "regular" suburban high schools. The expectations of the teachers in "regular" CPS schools is, by necessity, far below where it would be in the selective admissions high schools. In fact, it is pretty common for teachers in 'regular' SUBURBAN high school to have fairly high expectation of all their students --is common to NOT have students exclusively on an AP type track but a number of classes from across the spectrum of abilities. That means a teacher at a desirable suburban high school that is has one or two sections of AP Literature probably has several sections of "regular" English classes too. That sort of thing is short circuited by the CPS of "skimming of the cream" and it largely drops the level of the non-selective admissions schools SO LOW that parents that understand this pernicious effect (like teachers that work in CPS) gladly do pony up the tuition for PRIVATE schools to avoid this mess. BTW the "list price" of many private high schools can and is 'reduced' for families without a whole lot of dough...
Finally there is more than a little truth to the "temptation factor" -- CPS high schoolers generally are expected to take public transit to get themselves to school. That means LOTS of things that are more 'attractive' to a hormone filled group of kids to do instead of showing up on time, ready to learn. Even when they do make it to school a whole lot of kids that were pretty much angels in their elementary years do in fact become VERY distracted in a system that by it very organizing principles, of sending the "most promising" students to shiny, well equipped newer schools and the "regular kids" to decrepit excuses for warehouses. Oh there are handful of darned near CRAZY teachers incredibly dedicated to serving "regular" kids in "regular" high schools like Amundsen or Lakeview but the opportunity for kids to so touched / motivated by these individuals is just OVERWHELMED by the blatant message that CPS shoves in their faces -- for whatever reason the message from the leaders of CPS are "regular schools do not matter". The kids see this, Payton and Northside and Young and now Jones have GLEAMING facilities for everything from sports to athletics to art. The neighborhood high schools are flat out falling apart.
Honestly, if you were some sick twitch fascinated with the sorts of psychological control that some say the ruling class of South Africa imposed during the darkest periods of Apartheid you could not design a system that was anymore effective in sapping motivation out of people and perpetuating the dependency that seems key to some politicians remaining in control of their sad constituency.
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By "on retainer" I mean you simply call the lawyer up ahead of time...
