How do you feel about the quality of public transit? (Chicago: taxis, pricing)

[Bucktownbabe]

Originally Posted by Ace Rothstein

This is the second person in this thread that has given a thumbs down to SF's public transport system. I was there a few months ago and thought the coverage was outstanding, seemed like we were never more than 2 blocks from some mode of public transit no matter where we were in the city. The trolleybuses were also pretty nice, much quieter and cleaner than our diesel buses.

Yep, that's the criterion I was using, as well, and my experience matches yours. To be fair, SF is a pretty small city in terms of geographic area, so it doesn't take as much to cover it. In terms of coverage, though, I think it ranks ahead of Chicago and behind NYC.

[Ace Rothstein]

Originally Posted by Bucktownbabe

Yep, that's the criterion I was using, as well, and my experience matches yours. To be fair, SF is a pretty small city in terms of geographic area, so it doesn't take as much to cover it. In terms of coverage, though, I think it ranks ahead of Chicago and behind NYC.

Those trolleybuses are really nice as well. The overhead wires are ugly but the ride is much smoother.

[Bucktownbabe]

Originally Posted by vmexkids

Why do certain trains from the Midway Orange Line start as Orange Line trains than turn to Brown Line trains? It happens between 6-7 a.m.

Well, both the Brown and Orange lines only go in one direction from the Loop, as opposed to some of the other lines that go all the way through.

My guess: At that hour there are more Orange Line riders going outbound than inbound (catching early flights out of Midway) and more Brown line riders going inbound than outbound (going to work in the Loop), so it makes sense for them to run some of the trains all the way through rather than sending them back nearly empty.

[rzzz]

Originally Posted by Ace Rothstein

This is the second person in this thread that has given a thumbs down to SF's public transport system. I was there a few months ago and thought the coverage was outstanding, seemed like we were never more than 2 blocks from some mode of public transit no matter where we were in the city. The trolleybuses were also pretty nice, much quieter and cleaner than our diesel buses.

Bus coverage is adequate. Train coverage is not. Both trains and buses use local surface roads so are slow. Timetables are not adequate and are often wrong. One can often walk to the destination before the next bus arrives. If you live in the sunset, outer sunset, dog patch, potrero, richmond, anywhere with "heights" in the name, it can take FOREVER to get around on public transport. Aside from parking woes, if you have a car in SF it is way, way faster to get around by driving.

In contrast LA has recently built actual heavy rail subway and real BRT lines with dedicated lanes and nice new buses. This means one can actually get from point a to point b on transit faster than driving. Coverage isn't there yet but LA keeps building out new routes, both train and bus, whereas SF actually has been shutting down bus routes.

[MassVt]

Originally Posted by rzzz

Bus coverage is adequate. Train coverage is not. Both trains and buses use local surface roads so are slow. Timetables are not adequate and are often wrong. One can often walk to the destination before the next bus arrives. If you live in the sunset, outer sunset, dog patch, potrero, richmond, anywhere with "heights" in the name, it can take FOREVER to get around on public transport. Aside from parking woes, if you have a car in SF it is way, way faster to get around by driving.

In contrast LA has recently built actual heavy rail subway and real BRT lines with dedicated lanes and nice new buses. This means one can actually get from point a to point b on transit faster than driving. Coverage isn't there yet but LA keeps building out new routes, both train and bus, whereas SF actually has been shutting down bus routes.

Yes, in some cases ( small distances, etc), you ARE better off walking. I don't see the point of boading a bus to go 1 mile, or less. But for the most part, I've found mass transit in Chicago to be quite good.

Trains aren't meant to cover every square inch of a metropolitan area. If it connects major employment centers, downtown, the airport, universities and colleges, tourist attractions, etc, then it's doing a pretty good job. The buses fill in the gaps, and hopefully together they cover the majority of the surface area.

[jessemh431]

As for SF, the transit map looks good. But only a select few of those lines come more often than every 10 minutes. The bus I needed to take to school came every 15-20 minutes. You can imagine that with over 50 blocks of that picking up students, by the time it got closer to school we skipped nearly every stop. I lived halfway between the start and school and we usually only made it one or two stops more before the bus was too crowded to carry people.

The "subway" is useless unless you live in the Mission for BART or along Market St for Muni Underground. Once the "subway" goes above ground you could just kill yourself. The N Judah goes about 40 blocks on surface streets stopping at every.single.street. The 38 bus which I live on stops at nearly every single street. These are usually only about 400 feet apart. Combine that with almost every single street having a stoplight and traffic, it takes about 45 minutes to an hour to go 3 miles on our buses.

You can't walk as easily in SF as you can in Chicago or NYC because of the hills. 1 mile in SF feels MUCH worse than 1 mile in the other two. When you're staring up a 25% grade that goes up for a mile, you're gonna wait for that bus.

And BART doesn't actually serve the city of SF. From San Mateo County, every single line travels the same exact path through the city from Daly City to the Financial District. Very few neighborhoods in SF are served by it and it also closes very early. The East Bay is where BART becomes more usable, but everyone drives to a BART station anyways. But they all funnel into the Transbay Tube. If something goes wrong there, almost every single employee in the Financial District is late for work. And forget about using public transportation to get to nightlife in SF from the East Bay. It closes around 11pm so you're stranded in SF with no way home. For being "rapid" transit it's not very rapid. I usually wait around 15-20 minutes for a train to SFO from Powell St/Union Square station.

The only reason people don't drive in SF is because parking is so expensive. Driving gets you places MUCH faster than any bus or subway could. In other cities, the subway takes about equal time, maybe just slightly longer, but you don't have to worry about parking and car payments and parking tickets, etc. It makes public transit seems more reasonable. I drove everywhere besides to downtown in SF. EVERYWHERE.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by jessemh431

The only reason people don't drive in SF is because parking is so expensive. Driving gets you places MUCH faster than any bus or subway could. In other cities, the subway takes about equal time, maybe just slightly longer, but you don't have to worry about parking and car payments and parking tickets, etc. It makes public transit seems more reasonable. I drove everywhere besides to downtown in SF. EVERYWHERE.

And now you know why Uber and Lyft got their start in SF.

[jessemh431]

Originally Posted by Drover

And now you know why Uber and Lyft got their start in SF.

Haha yes. We always take Lyft at night when going out. Waiting 20 minutes in clubbing attire for a bus that takes 30 minutes to go 2 miles isn't worth it. If they weren't both so expensive now thanks to surge and prime time charges, I would never take the bus.

[Irishtom29]

San Francisco? Scottie and Madeleine went everywhere by car.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by jessemh431

Haha yes. We always take Lyft at night when going out. Waiting 20 minutes in clubbing attire for a bus that takes 30 minutes to go 2 miles isn't worth it. If they weren't both so expensive now thanks to surge and prime time charges, I would never take the bus.

Luckily we have enough options here that surge pricing doesn't usually last more than 15-20 minutes before enough people have availed themselves of those other options for surge pricing to go away.