Could Chicago Beat "Collapse"?

[jonnynonos]

"...hoping that future growth will help pull Chicago out of the doldrums."

That is pretty much the cornerstone of every irresponsible deal made in this country... signing off on some crap plan based on best-case scenario projections that a third grader would tell you will never come to pass.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by jonnynonos

Fiscally, from what I understand, yeah, both the city and state are in very bad shape.

But Detroit's public finances, which of course are a gazillion times worse than Chicago's, aren't what made Detroit, well, Detroit. A lot of things conspired to make Detroit Detroit, mainly unprecdented white flight.

I'm not sure what the outlook for jobs in Chicago is for 2014, but for Illinois as a whole, it is actually terrible--worst in the country, actually, according to Forbes.

But I guess that is just a projection; hopefully, obviously, it doesn't bear out.

What no one ever mentions is that white flight was followed by black flight; not only in Detroit but in most of the old industrial cities.

Isn't racist to think that because white residents left a city, leaving a black majority in control, is the cause of a city's ultimate demise? Same applies with schools; whites leave a school, leaving black majority in the schools, causing the education or school ''crisis''.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by edsg25

let's see: a major, major American city, global by any context, an integral part of what makes the US tick might "collapse"? And it might do this without taking the rest of the United States down with it?

Let's see: we have a national government with approval ratings in the single digits, one that simply has stopped working on many levels and the ones where it is seem designed only to work for the rich and connected. And we're worried about Chicago's survival? Gee, given the realities, I'd worry about NYC more than Chicago. First off, in this world where global climate change is real, NYC now is an easy assault for "storms" like Sandy to cause massive destruction. The city (like the rest of them) doesn't have the money to pay for infrastructure so it's going to pot. And NYC is a city in this ludicrous age of global decline that is totally dependent on the financial industry which is basically Las Vegas East and is totally unsustainable since it does far more bad than good. And I should be worried about Chicago's future.

Let's see some more: I read headlines that scream "School shootings in the US now a daily occurrence"….and…..what?……..I'm supposed to think Chicago is some hell hole murder capital of the nation…scratch that, world….scratch that, universe. Who knows, maybe Sandy Hook is the murder capital of the world. per capita, it seems like it might have earned that title.

We're all connected here in the good ol' USA. So we're all aboard a sinking ship. Our fates are connected. So all those still vibrant cities…..you know, like New York, Boston, Washington, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and…..yes…..very much still…..Chicago, we're all in that same sinking boat…..and if we go down, we're going down together.

It's a nation of me's, not we's. and for a younger generation, that very term "Chicago politics" has virtually no meaning for it is, in so many ways, rooted in the past, a paradigm from an earlier time. For we're all Chicago's right now. There is a stinking, rotting core of government, no longer having any resemblance to democracy, permeating every foot of real estate within the Beltway and is there because it influences all and pushes the corruption outward to all corners of the nation. Good grief, how many cities do you know of out there where people think their city government is responsive, let alone not throughly aligned with special interests. In this age where taxation is a dirty word, the safety net has disappeared, and DC's austerity (at a time when it should be spending money to get people back to work) filters down to our states and our cities, all of which, thank you very much, are pretty much broke. and incapable of offering the services necessary to that very survival that some of you seem so worried about with Chicago. And please….can we shut up already about Detroit. Detroit tells me more about the United States than it does about Detroit. Can you imagine the people of the United States in the 1950's and even the 1960's believing that a Detroit could exist in their nation, that the great engines of US industry basically would shut down, out source their jobs, and with them, the American Dream. Hell, was NYC ever as great as the time when Detroit, too, was great, and helped fuel all those things that made NYC NYC? Seems to me, NYC was far better off with a healthy Detroit than one on life support. that is, unless you think a nation can have its great cities on life support and it's not a problem….well, at least, not for anybody but those poor, written off cities. We're f-ing into it together, and we don't have a clue on that one. Go to Germany. There are no Detroit's in Germany. Germany protects its industries. It also requires, by law, that labor sits on boards of directors of its corporations with a strong say so on what their companies do. And Germany (even with its Nazi past) is the not the US, a place where racism is pervasive and paralyzing and part of the very fabric of the nation. Germany, like other nations, don't divide the way the US does, don't produce a Detroit where the city is a black hole within the white doughnut that is suburbia, a sure formula for national dysfunction. You live in nation today where income inequality has reached a level that would only be a dream for those old "banana republics" out there; when it comes to income inequality, we have put them to shame.

There are those of you out there who constantly use the term "Chicago", oblivious of the fact that that word is really a stand in for "America", a fact you're afraid to face. I don't know: if Chicago is a house of cards that might "collapse", what exactly do you think the United States of America is? although we all know that thinking wold be insane. The United States is like the Soviet Union. Solid. Pervasive. Dominating. It could never collapse. In fact, it as absurd to think the US could collapse as to think the USSR could. Never will happen.

OK, then Chicago will be the first card to collapse since its the biggest city with the highest unsustainable debt within one of the largest states with the highest unsustainable debt. I see your response as being the typical Chicago denial.

[Dream Chaser]

There are allot reasons Detroit is in their position. The main reasons were being dependent on one industry, white flight and black flight. To add to those, what really destroyed Detroit was drugs. Detroit was one of the hardest cities hit by the crack epidemic.

[mrupsidedown]

We need to make it manditory that cops or and any government employee not be allowed to possess any guns or any deadly weapons!

Contact your local scumbag politcian and demand this!

[Maintainschaos]

Originally Posted by Kamms

OK, then Chicago will be the first card to collapse since its the biggest city with the highest unsustainable debt within one of the largest states with the highest unsustainable debt. I see your response as being the typical Chicago denial.

While I don't think that any debt should go ignored, Illinois neither has the largest debt, nor the highest debt per capita, and I can't find a source listing Chicago as having the highest debt or debt per capita for a US city. Now Chicago has the highest per capita underfunded pensions (and IL the lowest percent pension funding), but total liabilities typically don't put it anywhere near touching NYC per capita.

[williepotatoes]

Originally Posted by Dream Chaser

There are allot reasons Detroit is in their position. The main reasons were being dependent on one industry, white flight and black flight. To add to those, what really destroyed Detroit was drugs. Detroit was one of the hardest cities hit by the crack epidemic.

Detroit's situation was forty years in the making. The racial turnover to 85% black spurred the white population to pick up and leave. And they took most of the money with them.

[Ace Rothstein]

Originally Posted by mrupsidedown

We need to make it manditory that cops or and any government employee not be allowed to possess any guns or any deadly weapons!

Contact your local scumbag politcian and demand this!

LOL, you wouldn't have a police force in American cities if they couldn't possess guns. The criminals are already armed better than the police are.

[HomeIsWhere...]

Originally Posted by thefallensrvnge

It's a hell of situation the former leaders of this city left for others to clean. Probably one of the most interesting quotes from the article I posted earlier:

I agree...this ^

Quote: Scott, a longtime broker and financial adviser who worked on Chicago bond deals before joining Emanuel’s team in 2011, said the city can’t afford to tackle all of its financial problems at once. Raising taxes would threaten economic growth, she said. Instead, the administration is using bond money to buy time, hoping that future growth will help pull Chicago out of the doldrums.

“It is a tool to be used to address financial challenges from time to time,” Scott said. “Debt is a way to reallocate burdens and opportunities across generations.”

Originally Posted by jonnynonos

"...hoping that future growth will help pull Chicago out of the doldrums."

That is pretty much the cornerstone of every irresponsible deal made in this country... signing off on some crap plan based on best-case scenario projections that a third grader would tell you will never come to pass.

and this!

We all are very much aware of the financial shenanigans that take place throughout the city and state but when one sees it in print, it brings a whole new meaning to the word clarity.

"Chicago officials abused a powerful financial tool intended to build for the future — issuance of bonds backed by property taxes — as they spent nearly $10 billion in 13 years with few restrictions and virtually no oversight."

“All you’re doing is saddling some future unknown taxpayer with responsibility for something that’s already been used up.”

Ben Watkins, director of bond finance for Florida and chair of the Government Finance Officers Association’s debt committee