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I haven't lived in Chicago for many years, but when I did it was very segregated AND racist. I experienced being called the N word, being called black and ugly, receiving rudeness and mean stares from white, being followed around in stores, etc. I am from Beverly. My sis and nephew lived in Beverly in the more Irish area for a while. A bunch of white Irish guys jumped my nephew when he was hanging out with friends. This was just a couple of years ago. He beat them all down though.
With all that being said, I still love Chicago and it's a MUCH better city than where I currently live and I'd love to move back. I had much more fun and much richer experiences living in Chicago than living in the south.
I'd hoped that all my years being away from Chicago that the race and segregation situation would have improved some. I guess not. I haven't been there in a few years. The last time I was there people were friendly (struck up conversations with non-black strangers while out shopping and they were very nice to me) and I rode the red line to the south side to visit relative without any incident. Of course living there isn't the same as visiting.
Some of my black friends in Chicago often talk about how horrible it is there and that I shouldn't move back, but whenever I've gone home I always have a blast and hate coming back to Atlanta.
Because ethnic groups keep to themselves in their own neighborhood there, I don't think there's been a real opportunity to overcome the racial divide, while unlike NYC, while it has it's racist history also and ethnic areas, everyone is piled up on top of each other and forced to interact more I think, because it's so many people there.
There is definitely a class and cultural element at play in Chicago. Additionally, I see that segregation works both ways and that people tend to want to be around their own. It's not wonderful for social mobility, though, for those trying to get out of the lower rungs of poverty into a more middle class life. I think the lack of social mobility, especially among African Americans is driving a bigger wedge of distrust and maybe hatred between races and classes and thus definitely enforcing the norm.
Chicago is a city rooted in institutions, corrupt (like the state) or abstract like racial philosophies of the past. It will be slow changing and a lot of it will really depend on attitudes as well as social mobility. If anyone is denying the social mobility aspect, they are missing the full picture.
I haven't lived in Chicago for many years, but when I did it was very segregated AND racist. I experienced being called the N word, being called black and ugly, receiving rudeness and mean stares from white, being followed around in stores, etc. I am from Beverly. My sis and nephew lived in Beverly in the more Irish area for a while. A bunch of white Irish guys jumped my nephew when he was hanging out with friends. This was just a couple of years ago. He beat them all down though.
With all that being said, I still love Chicago and it's a MUCH better city than where I currently live and I'd love to move back. I had much more fun and much richer experiences living in Chicago than living in the south.
I'd hoped that all my years being away from Chicago that the race and segregation situation would have improved some. I guess not. I haven't been there in a few years. The last time I was there people were friendly (struck up conversations with non-black strangers while out shopping and they were very nice to me) and I rode the red line to the south side to visit relative without any incident. Of course living there isn't the same as visiting.
Some of my black friends in Chicago often talk about how horrible it is there and that I shouldn't move back, but whenever I've gone home I always have a blast and hate coming back to Atlanta.
Because ethnic groups keep to themselves in their own neighborhood there, I don't think there's been a real opportunity to overcome the racial divide, while unlike NYC, while it has it's racist history also and ethnic areas, everyone is piled up on top of each other and forced to interact more I think, because it's so many people there.
Chicago is definitely still segregated, but it really is getting better. You are seeing more and more mixes going on on the northside and in parts of the near south side/UIC area. There is still racism, like anywhere, but its improving.
You are from a Puerto Rican perspective. I'm giving you a black perspective.
Your comparing Chicago to the Chicago of the 50's. I'm comparing it to my experience in other cities.
I can give plenty of stories of discrimination in establishments in some areas.
All my black friends love Chicago and are quite successful. We also have to agree that we aren't on the same page as far as comparison and cultural experience. That's ok. I don't hate you for it. I hope you've learned from me because I learned from you.
Chicago is definitely still segregated, but it really is getting better. You are seeing more and more mixes going on on the northside and in parts of the near south side/UIC area. There is still racism, like anywhere, but its improving.
There is definitely a class and cultural element at play in Chicago. Additionally, I see that segregation works both ways and that people tend to want to be around their own. It's not wonderful for social mobility, though, for those trying to get out of the lower rungs of poverty into a more middle class life. I think the lack of social mobility, especially among African Americans is driving a bigger wedge of distrust and maybe hatred between races and classes and thus definitely enforcing the norm.
I agree. I think just cause a white person wants to live by white people doesn't make them racist. Because blacks, Latinos and Asians do the EXACT same thing, yet they are not considered racist, just the white people are seen that way.
I really think in present day the segregation has more to do with class than race. It just happens that most of the poor in the city are black, but that's not because they are being held down in present day. It's because past behaviors decades and decades before have put them there.
I think it's improved since then. The south side still has a ton of work to do, but the northside has become more integrated. With the exception of a couple neighborhoods.
Avondale where I grew up (1990s) was about half Latino and half white. Now there has been an influx of black professionals residents and everyone is fine. The neighborhood is actually really on the upswing and becoming trendier. Growing up there there were no black families on the block. Now there are three black families on he block and everyone gets along just fine. I still live in Avondale, and there are also a few black families on my new block and whites and Latinos as well.
This not the case everywhere in Chicago, but place like Avondale, Logan Square, Irving Park, South Loop even Ukranian Village are becoming more and more integrated.
I think it's improved since then. The south side still has a ton of work to do, but the northside has become more integrated. With the exception of a couple neighborhoods.
Avondale where I grew up (1990s) was about half Latino and half white. Now there has been an influx of black professionals residents and everyone is fine. The neighborhood is actually really on the upswing and becoming trendier. Growing up there there were no black families on the block. Now there are three black families on he block and everyone gets along just fine. I still live in Avondale, and there are also a few black families on my new block and whites and Latinos as well.
This not the case everywhere in Chicago, but place like Avondale, Logan Square, Irving Park, South Loop even Ukranian Village are becoming more and more integrated.
I think the integration comes from blacks who may have been raised on the south side but got educated and some money and wanted to move to the north side and have access to more activities, opportunities and safer neighborhoods. Even though I wasn't raised in the ghetto on the south side, even as a kid I knew that when I was ready to move out on my own I wanted to move to the north side because it appealed more to my interests and sensibilities.
Also, as others have mentioned blacks segregating themselves, Chicago blacks tend to be very closed-minded and not open to things not black. And though racism does exist there, they automatically assume everyone is out to get them because they are black or they don't want to try things not related to black culture. It's not just blacks in the ghetto there who think that way and I wanted to get away from that sort of mentality. I went out of my way to be around people of other races even when they weren't welcoming to me, and I made it a point to expose myself to other cultures because I knew the world--and even the city of Chicago itself--was bigger than the south side. I figured that out at a very young age and I was considered weird for it by other blacks.
While whites in Chicago can be racist, blacks in Chicago can also be racist don't help things by being close-minded either.
Well I disagree, I really don't think racism here is over the top. Seems exaggerated. Racism will always exist to a certain degree. Ask someone who lived in the 1950s if racism in Chicago is over the top in2013. Most of the black people I know are very successful and the city has been great to them. The thing they all have in common? They didn't come from poverty. Black people of those classes can live wherever they want here and can get a job anywhere. Poor blacks, not so much. but same can be said for poor latinos and poor whites. Don't confuse poor blacks with middle class and upper class blacks. Middle class and upper class blacks are doing just fine in Chicago. Plenty are doing better than me and I'm pretty successful. If Chicago was so racist, then there would be no black people where I work nor or any successful ones. there would be no Black anchors on TV. Blacks would be treated differently in bars and restaurants. waiters would treat them differently. realtors would never sell a black person propery in a non black neighborhood. Chicago would have never voted for Obama if it were truly racist! Chicago is segregated, but not racist.
I think it's pretty ballsy to say Chicago racism is over the top now when you take into consideration how it was 50 years ago. As far as I know Blacks have all the same rights and opportunities as everyone else does. I dont think anyone is holding them down, they have just as much opportunity as others. Now whether a poor uneducated black does that is a different story, but an educated and professional black, no one is holding them down.
Why do non-blacks seem to consider themselves experts on the black experience?
I think the integration comes from blacks who may have been raised on the south side but got educated and some money and wanted to move to the north side and have access to more activities, opportunities and safer neighborhoods. Even though I wasn't raised in the ghetto on the south side, even as a kid I knew that when I was ready to move out on my own I wanted to move to the north side because it appealed more to my interests and sensibilities.
Also, as others have mentioned blacks segregating themselves, Chicago blacks tend to be very closed-minded and not open to things not black. And though racism does exist there, they automatically assume everyone is out to get them because they are black or they don't want to try things not related to black culture. It's not just blacks in the ghetto there who think that way and I wanted to get away from that sort of mentality. I went out of my way to be around people of other races even when they weren't welcoming to me, and I made it a point to expose myself to other cultures because I knew the world--and even the city of Chicago itself--was bigger than the south side. I figured that out at a very young age and I was considered weird for it by other blacks.
While whites in Chicago can be racist, blacks in Chicago can also be racist don't help things by being close-minded either.
Right, racism exists everywhere and in Chicago its improving. slowly but surely. Peoples attitudes have improved every decade. But like you said you are educated and professional, which from my experience where he segregation comes. If you were to move to Lincoln Park, nobody would care or treat you differently. But if you were poor and uneducated and "ghetto" people would care. So it's not so much your skin color but more so your class and behavior. Professional middle and upper class people born post 1970s in Chicago are very tolerant and open. They are generally accepting of blacks, Latinos, gays, everything. They might live in homogenous areas but that doesn't make them racist!
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