Suburb close to University of Chicago that is walkable? (Oak Lawn: rent, custom home)

[Manigault]

Originally Posted by lulu33

We like the diversity of Hyde Park but are looking for something with a predominantly white neighborhood.

Maybe Phoenix or Robbins?

[ChiNaan]

Originally Posted by lulu33

We like the diversity of Hyde Park but are looking for something with a predominantly white neighborhood.

Well, which is it? Do you like diversity or do you want a white neighborhood? These directly contradict each other. If it's the latter, just forget walkability and move to Schaumburg, or forget large affordable living space and move to Lincoln Park. Those seem to be the things to do for people of that mindset.

[tompope]

Originally Posted by lulu33

We like the diversity of Hyde Park but are looking for something with a predominantly white neighborhood.

Originally Posted by ChiNaan

Well, which is it? Do you like diversity or do you want a white neighborhood? These directly contradict each other. If it's the latter, just forget walkability and move to Schaumburg, or forget large affordable living space and move to Lincoln Park. Those seem to be the things to do for people of that mindset.

Yeah, I can certainly see why you would say that that's contradictory. And the OP may very well indeed be a raging hypocrite; I don't think we have enough information from his or her posts to draw that conclusion, but it's definitely possible. But I think it is also possible that it's not entirely contradictory. I think it's possible for a person to like diversity, appreciating diversity in the abstract and valuing the idea of diversity, but still prefer for emotional or psychological reasons to live in a neighborhood made up primarily of people with the same skin color. In fact, I think that combination of attitudes is not that unusual in this day and age. I think there are actually a lot of people who feel more or less that way—I've certainly known some. I don't really know if that's the case with lulu33, but I think it's at least possible.

[ChiNaan]

Originally Posted by tompope

Yeah, I can certainly see why you would say that that's contradictory. And the OP may very well indeed be a raging hypocrite; I don't think we have enough information from his or her posts to draw that conclusion,

Agreed. I'm not saying the person is a hypocrite. I am saying, however, that the statement was hypocritical.

Originally Posted by tompope

but it's definitely possible. But I think it is also possible that it's not entirely contradictory. I think it's possible for a person to like diversity, appreciating diversity in the abstract and valuing the idea of diversity, but still prefer for emotional or psychological reasons to live in a neighborhood made up primarily of people with the same skin color.

I would say that a person holding these views (which I agree are unfortunately quite common) does not in fact appreciate or value diversity in any way whatsoever. Paying lip service to a viewpoint is not the same as actually holding a viewpoint.

[Manigault]

Hyde Park is in some ways like military service -- it is the first time in many white folks lives that they find themselves in the minority. Many find that unsettling.

I'm not criticizing or condemning them for their reaction; I just know that it exists. On the other hand, there are whites is Hyde Park who have lived there for decades after moving from places with great uniformity, like southern Indiana. It takes all kinds.

[tompope]

Originally Posted by ChiNaan

Agreed. I'm not saying the person is a hypocrite. I am saying, however, that the statement was hypocritical.

You're right. That's a fair point, and makes an important and worthwhile distinction. Even if it is a hypocritical statement, that doesn't necessarily mean that the person is a hypocrite in general, at least not any more than any of the rest of us.

Originally Posted by ChiNaan

I would say that a person holding these views (which I agree are unfortunately quite common) does not in fact appreciate or value diversity in any way whatsoever. Paying lip service to a viewpoint is not the same as actually holding a viewpoint.

This starts to get into some semantic hair-splitting, but I don't agree that someone who prefers to live around mainly people of their own skin color necessarily ipso facto does not appreciate or value diversity in any way at all. I think it's mostly believable (if not exactly commendable) to appreciate and value the idea of diversity, and in fact to appreciate and value the reality of diversity as long as it's a safe distance away, without actually wanting to live among that diversity. Again, I think that's a fairly common attitude in our modern society, and while I have a hard time respecting it, it seems to me like something that comes from normal human foibles rather than anything malicious or malevolent.

As a matter of fact, I'd bet each of us can think of examples of things that we like and appreciate in general, but don't really want to be too close to. For example, I really like small, rural towns in the middle of nowhere in the Midwest and the South. I find them generally interesting and intriguing, and I enjoy visiting them from time to time when I'm in those areas, driving around, walking down the little Main Street, stopping for lunch at a local greasy spoon to chat with some locals. I appreciate that little towns like that still exist, and that millions of Americans live their whole lives in places like that. I think that's cool. But I would never actually want to live there myself, or even too close to there, if I have a choice. I have no idea if that's how the OP feels about demographic diversity, but I think it's possible. I have certainly encountered people in Chicago and other cities who feel more or less that way: they're not racist, exactly, and they enjoy seeing and interacting with people from a variety of backgrounds, so they're happy to visit a place like Hyde Park, or other non-white-majority neighborhoods. But when it comes to choosing a place to live, especially when they're making the enormous financial investment of buying a house (the OP didn't specifically say that they were intending to buy a house in this case, but it's a common pattern in a situation like theirs), or when they're looking for a place to raise their kids, they just feel more confident and comfortable in an area that's mostly white. I'm not defending those people, and it's probably true that they don't appreciate or value diversity enough, but I don't think it's quite fair or accurate to say that they don't appreciate or value diversity in any way whatsoever.

[JacksonPanther]

Originally Posted by Manigault

Hyde Park is in some ways like military service -- it is the first time in many white folks lives that they find themselves in the minority. Many find that unsettling.

Something about that statement made me think, so I looked it up. Turns out, Hyde Park isn't majority Black:, at least not according to Wikipedia...

Demographics 2010[1]
• White 46.7%
• Black 30.43%
• Hispanic 6.33%
• Asian 12.4%
• Other 4.14%

HP is certainly "less white" than the northside lakefront, but it's by no means a white-minority neighborhood... I think the only way HP is majority Black is if you include the Kenwood area, from 51st to 47th. But HP proper, still majority white, by a large margin.

[tompope]

Originally Posted by JacksonPanther

Somthing about that statement made me think, so I looked it up. Turns out, Hyde Park isn't majority Black:, at least not according to Wikipedia...

Demographics 2010[1]
• White 46.7%
• Black 30.43%
• Hispanic 6.33%
• Asian 12.4%
• Other 4.14%

HP is certainly "less white" than the northside lakefront, but it's by no means a white-minority neighborhood... I think the only way HP is majority Black is if you include the Kenwood area, from 51st to 47th. But HP proper, still majority white, by a large margin.

46.7% is less than 50%, so that makes it a minority. White people are (at least according to those data) a plurality in Hyde Park, but still also a minority.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by tompope

46.7% is less than 50%, so that makes it a minority. White people are (at least according to those data) a plurality in Hyde Park, but still also a minority.

Minority is a relative term for an area. It doesn't matter if it's under 50%. That still doesn't make it a minority. A minority is any group that doesn't belong to the largest group. So in this case, for the Hyde Park neighborhood, whites are not the minority.

[ChiNaan]

Originally Posted by Manigault

Hyde Park is in some ways like military service -- it is the first time in many white folks lives that they find themselves in the minority. Many find that unsettling.

Hyde Park is 47% White, 30% Black, 12% Asian, 6% Hispanic

I guess you could say that technically makes White people a minority there in the sense of being less than 50%, but they're still by far the largest racial group. There are plenty of Chicago neighborhoods where White people can experience being truly outnumbered, though, and Hyde Park ain't one of 'em.