I almost spit out my coffee.... (Chicago, Clinton: credit, how much, bankrupt)

[knitgirl]

Originally Posted by aragx6

Ditto. And if that makes me a "socialist" in the eyes of the right (I think they might need a refresher on what a socialist actually is FTR), well I can live with that.

Double ditto.

[nana053]

Originally Posted by Chicago60614

I honestly don't have a problem taxing people making more than $1M by a fair share and then cutting spending. Should we cut taxes to the rich? They're paying a lower share now than they have been since income taxes came about 100 years ago.

The top tax brackets use to be around 90%. They were cut by Regan down to the 50's, and then with Bush they went to the mid 30's. That's also when you saw the rich becoming richer at a much quicker pace. Rich people make money out of money. Also corporations got crazy with their hundreds of millions in compensation packages trying to one-up one another once the tax issue was gone. Basically the money is piling up amoung a few who have the ability and means to make vast amounts of it.

No one likes taxes, but if you're making $50 million a year, I really don't feel bad if you pay a few million more.

I agree!

Why the Rich Are Getting Richer | Foreign Affairs

The wealthiest Americans, among them presumably the very titans of global finance whose misadventures brought about the financial meltdown, got richer. And not just a little bit richer; a lot richer. Mod Cut .

Since the late 1970s, a number of important policy changes have tilted the economic playing field toward the rich. Congress has cut tax rates on high incomes repeatedly and has relaxed the tax treatment of capital gains and other investment income, resulting in windfall profits for the wealthiest Americans.

We need to return to an economy where the wealthy are not favored by the government. I don't resent wealth, but I do resent the tax breaks that have allowed them to pile up more than their fair share.

[cubssoxfan]

Originally Posted by aragx6

Ditto. And if that makes me a "socialist" in the eyes of the right (I think they might need a refresher on what a socialist actually is FTR), well I can live with that.

Funny you mention Socilaist. I consider my self a moderate R. yet to me socialism is not bad. How can that be? It's my experience via family living in Germany. Their taxes are higher, last time we did a comparison around 40-45%. BUT, excellent universal healthcare and a sustainable and more generous version of our Social Security. When we added the % for healthcare insurance and to make up the difference in pension, the GAP was very small. Goods and services were taxed more, fuel taxes were higher, but no taxes on savings. And excellent roads and phenomenal public transit. I get really pi**ed off when "conservatives" use socialism as an insult, yet many probably have not taken the time to spend time overseas and compare and contrast. Learn form others, incorporate the best of their ideas instead of assuming our way has got to be the best.

[It'sAutomatic]

Who the hell out there really resents/envies the rich? I just think that they should pay a fair share. If anything, the Republicans are the ones engaging in class warfare, seeing as each of the presidential candidates and countless legislators have made it clear that poor minorities receiving government benefits are public enemy #1. Republicans' rhetoric is to broadly cut government spending, but in reality they fight to cut spending on the poor and have no interest in doing the same for the rich, ensuring that their pockets are lined with tax cuts, deductions, and subsidies to their companies.

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by cubssoxfan

Funny you mention Socilaist. I consider my self a moderate R. yet to me socialism is not bad. How can that be? It's my experience via family living in Germany. Their taxes are higher, last time we did a comparison around 40-45%. BUT, excellent universal healthcare and a sustainable and more generous version of our Social Security. When we added the % for healthcare insurance and to make up the difference in pension, the GAP was very small. Goods and services were taxed more, fuel taxes were higher, but no taxes on savings. And excellent roads and phenomenal public transit. I get really pi**ed off when "conservatives" use socialism as an insult, yet many probably have not taken the time to spend time overseas and compare and contrast. Learn form others, incorporate the best of their ideas instead of assuming our way has got to be the best.

Except that now in Europe it's all starting to unravel. The countries are going bankrupt and they can no longer afford their lavish social programs. Look at what's happening in Greece -- government is so broke it's finally being forced to cut spending, and the people, who have come to see their "entitlement" programs as a right, are rioting.

As Margaret Thatcher once observed, the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money. Do we really want to emulate countries that are going belly up?

[pvande55]

Moderator: I believe this belongs on Politics and Other Controversies

[linicx]

We will have a bigger problem if we are not very careful. Real Estate taxes and Income tax pay for IL schools. and other services. If taxes are raised on the working class, and services to the poor, elderly and ill, are reduced or eliminated the real estate tax amd State Income Tax will pick up the slack. Some of us will be forced out of our homes. I'ts a vicious cycle in a state with 13M people living in it.

But, if you go to a no Real Estate or no Income Tax state when services are cut guess what happens? The school systems, and medical care are affected the most statewide. You may have a job but you won't be able to pay for medical care.

Our office calls are about $225.00. These numbers are set by the hospitals that build the clinics, and hire the doctors. The hospitals set unrealistic office call prices to keep the riff raff out, are the same hospitals who cry the loudest about the ER being used as a doctor's office by the poor.

Where does the sick baby go for help? The dentist or the animal doctor? Sadly the DVM is better trained than most MDs.

I am inclined to look at a national tax, ending corporate PAC for lobbying, and also closing corporate loopholes until all of the Fortune 500 pay a fair tax - not just the 51% that willingly pay their fair share. I am also in favor of not graduating medical students who do not maintain a C average or better in all required courses. There are too many doctors who don't know what MRSA is, or how to write a Rx. And there ae way too many dirty hospitals from coast to coast.It is a lot easier to write new law than it is to enforce the old one..

[It'sAutomatic]

Originally Posted by andrew61

Except that now in Europe it's all starting to unravel. The countries are going bankrupt and they can no longer afford their lavish social programs. Look at what's happening in Greece -- government is so broke it's finally being forced to cut spending, and the people, who have come to see their "entitlement" programs as a right, are rioting.

As Margaret Thatcher once observed, the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money. Do we really want to emulate countries that are going belly up?

Except that by "the countries", you mean a handful of countries. Most nations of the European Union are doing just fine alone, what is harming Northern Europe is the current economic downturn multiplied by being constitutionally obliged to bail out other countries. The main problem in Greece isn't its socialist policies or entitlement programs but rather the people's broad entitlement to a high-paying government job (much like the situation we have in Chicago). I'd recommend learning about world events from a source other than Fox News.

[jdiddy]

Originally Posted by It'sAutomatic

I'd recommend learning about world events from a source other than Fox News.

These are the kind of comments which make discussing politics on the internet worthless.

[almost3am]

Originally Posted by jdiddy

These are the kind of comments which make discussing politics on the internet worthless.

Right, I don't understand why we can't engage in discussions about topics we disagree on without personal attacks. Just because someone doesn't agree with my point of view or opinion, doesn't make them an idiot, a lemming, or whatever. No issue is black and white, almost everything has gray areas that cause differing opinions.