Value of "Pedestrian Street" designation? (Chicago, Lincoln: new construction, closing)

[Chi-town Native]

Official response:

I appreciate your inquiry regarding the lifting of the Pedestrian Street designation for Milwaukee Avenue. Several months ago, I posted plans on the 35th Ward Newsletter announcing a new McDonald's to replace the existing one on Milwaukee and Sawyer. The McDonald's owners will make this investment only if they can retain their current parking configuration. In order to secure construction permits to maintain parking access and their drive-thru, the P-Street designation must temporarily be lifted. Once they have secured their permits, the P-Street designation will be restored. There is no way around this. No new driveway permits will be approved while this designation is lifted. Our choices are to keep the current restaurant as is or secure the permits for a new one. The McDonald's parking lot has also been commonly used as the Milwaukee Avenue entrance into the Emmett St. parking lot. If there was a way to get a walk-up McDonald's or another way to assist them in getting permits without lifting this designation I would have done so. Unfortunately, this is the only available option and once again, it is temporary. The only change on Milwaukee Ave. will be the construction of a new, more modern McDonald's.

Please let me know if I can answer any further questions.

Thank you,


Alderman Rey Colón
City of Chicago, 35th Ward

[chet everett]

The whole can of worms that could be opened up in these kind of things of enormous.

This is, after all, the city council that banned foie grass and then repeal that foolish nanny state edict, and tried to tell elephant trainers how to handle their animals...

If the McDonalds store is properly situated so that cross traffic does not turn the adjacent sidewalks into an effective obstacle course there should be little need to worry about the bigger stretch of Milwaukee Ave, but if the whackos from PETA and other anti- whatever forces turn this into "factory food vs organic vegans" the whole thing becomes a side show for political grand standing...

[jdiddy]

Originally Posted by chet everett

The whole can of worms that could be opened up in these kind of things of enormous.

This is, after all, the city council that banned foie grass and then repeal that foolish nanny state edict, and tried to tell elephant trainers how to handle their animals...

If the McDonalds store is properly situated so that cross traffic does not turn the adjacent sidewalks into an effective obstacle course there should be little need to worry about the bigger stretch of Milwaukee Ave, but if the whackos from PETA and other anti- whatever forces turn this into "factory food vs organic vegans" the whole thing becomes a side show for political grand standing...

Uh, ok. You're so bizarre now.

Having worked on issues like this a few years back, I can tell you this (cajoling local govt to remove ped designation to maintain current site design) is a pretty common occurence.

[Attrill]

I think the big problem with this is that it shows Colon doesn't really stand behind planning initiatives he passes to make constituents happy.

Getting rid of curb cuts is probably the most important part of making a pedestrian friendly retail street. When pedestrians and cars have to compete on the sidewalk, it has a big impact on how retail develops. I'm not sure why Colon thinks that removing the designation altogether is the only option, unless it's also intended to allow the creation of new curb cuts and parking lots for the Cheetah Gym that's being built.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by Attrill

I think the big problem with this is that it shows Colon doesn't really stand behind planning initiatives he passes to make constituents happy.

Getting rid of curb cuts is probably the most important part of making a pedestrian friendly retail street. When pedestrians and cars have to compete on the sidewalk, it has a big impact on how retail develops. I'm not sure why Colon thinks that removing the designation altogether is the only option, unless it's also intended to allow the creation of new curb cuts and parking lots for the Cheetah Gym that's being built.

I read his response as saying that it's not his preference, but what is required to allow the McDonald's to renovate - the McDonald's has been there for decades, so it either had its curb cuts grandfathered in after the PD, or was given an exception (I don't know how far back the PD dates).

I definitely do not understand the nuances in the City's code, but I can't imagine given the status of the economy/building slowdown that he's trying to sneak through curb cuts for some massive development project - there really aren't any that aren't just renovations.

It's always good to keep a keen eye out on these things, but the most egregious problems on Milwaukee all long pre-date him; Pierre's ridiculous parking lot and curb cuts for their half dozen customers at any given time being the worst.

[chet everett]

Before Daley the suggestions of the official Planning Department were pretty routinely ignored. He brought in much more professional people on to the city payroll and did try to incorporate their better ideas into most of the larger projects on the northside and westside.

The southside has a lot more "oops" type strip centers that were thrown up in his tenure, probably a way to let those alderman get more of the direct graft from developers and appease residents who actually like the messed up giant parking lot developments that are close to the north branch of the river...

I still would be suspicious about suspending the whole designation for a series of parcel if McD's is only going to do work on one or two, such tactics are CLASSIC moves by alderman so that they can deny knowing that their pals that might own the parcels adjacent / across from the McD also plunk in parking lots during the period when the designation is not effect. It is a timing thing -- remember how Daley the master schemer had the bulldozer rip up Meigs in the middle of the night???

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

I read his response as saying that it's not his preference, but what is required to allow the McDonald's to renovate - the McDonald's has been there for decades, so it either had its curb cuts grandfathered in after the PD, or was given an exception (I don't know how far back the PD dates).

I definitely do not understand the nuances in the City's code, but I can't imagine given the status of the economy/building slowdown that he's trying to sneak through curb cuts for some massive development project - there really aren't any that aren't just renovations.

It's always good to keep a keen eye out on these things, but the most egregious problems on Milwaukee all long pre-date him; Pierre's ridiculous parking lot and curb cuts for their half dozen customers at any given time being the worst.

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by chet everett

The whole can of worms that could be opened up in these kind of things of enorbut if the whackos from PETA

Scratching my head and wondering. Since PETA stands for People for Ethical Treatment for Animals, what on earth about such a concept would make one a "wacko"?

Seems to me a wonderful concept and a great organization. I do want ethical treatment for animals. Indeed, I (as a person) am one myself and find it ludicrous to make the division between "us" and "them". We are them.

Wackos? Hardly. I eat meat and wish I didn't (not an excuse, mind you; others with my way of thinking and values have overcome this and have been able to get past our ability to cage and slaughter animals by resisting eating them).'

Should we consider and evaluate how we use animals for food? damned right we should. it is an issue that should be part of the public discourse. And only the most chauvenistic human (rah! rah! Human Race!) would question that, yes, this is very much a rights issue.

So while I can hardly hold myself up as some paridgon of virtue, I admire what PETA does greatly.

But, chet, I'm sure you would think that would make me even more of a "wacko" than you already think I am.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by chet everett

I still would be suspicious about suspending the whole designation for a series of parcel if McD's is only going to do work on one or two, such tactics are CLASSIC moves by alderman so that they can deny knowing that their pals that might own the parcels adjacent / across from the McD also plunk in parking lots during the period when the designation is not effect. It is a timing thing -- remember how Daley the master schemer had the bulldozer rip up Meigs in the middle of the night???

Daley is the perfect example of how this stuff can be done in the dead of night without bothering with any legit processes.

From what I can see, Colon is following the steps he's supposed to - his PR mistake was not putting a statement like the one I posted out concurrent with a notice on the zoning meeting. But these guys are unholy swamped right now, this redistricting thing is a massive time suck for all of them, call your alderman if you don't believe me.

But if he was up to no good, he sure is shooting himself in the foot with that announcement (as well as dousing himself with kerosene and getting ready to light a cigarette).

[chet everett]

The whacko comment was more for the people that too often show up when the cameras cover these kinds of things. As a philosophical matter it is hard to opposed to be the ethical treatment of animals, but when they get goofy and dress up as slaughtered cows and mount a protest at a fast food restaurant you have to question their methods. There is also aspect of false superiority to the sort of people that get involved in such groups that goes beyond distastefulness into the sort of fascist mindset that one ought not to have explain why it is a bad thing...

These sorts of issues get even more nutty when you factor in that they may be protesting one of the more wholesome employers in a neighbor that has quite the range of cleanliness standards and such or a place that between the salads and grilled chicken options actually can be the basis for quick meals that are both pretty healthy and quite inexpensive...

The "media hound" aspect of too many of these groups attempts to link issues that really ought not be addressed by overly intrusive aldermen and results in dumb laws that end up drawing scorn to the foolish people that support overly specialized legislation.

[jdiddy]

Originally Posted by edsg25

.

Save your outrage for another thread. There's no reason that needs to be discussed in a thread discussing a zoning item.