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Haley, I don't want to judge you when I don't even know you, but looking at your previous posts, it just sounds to me like Chicago to you is the bubble known as "Lincoln Park-Lakeview-Wicker Park-Bucktown-Roscoe Village-Gold Coast"
Chicago is more urban and has much more cultural things to do, but on a per capita basis, you are still going to find much greater environmental awareness in and western metropolitan area. Besides Denver, and other intermountain west metro areas have been growing largely from Californians/west coasters moving in.
I know Denver as well, and I felt that when I came back to the Chicago area, I actually had to look for people who shared my values.
I confess You're right! I live in the bubble! I won't pretend otherwise. I lived eastlake in Seattle, the Pearl in Portland, and Wash Park/Cherry Creek in Denver. I just look for the right bubble in the right location, and sadly, I had a hard time finding the right bubble in Denver (LODO isn't The Pearl), and in Chicago, I'd be looking in the same bubbles you suggested.
I don't know how long it's been since you lived in Denver, but I just left there are few months ago, and the Denver I know has not been changed by the Californians/West Coasters moving in. Aspen has, Boulder totally, but not Denver proper. It was still very Denver, and a few of my other friends who've lived both places recently agreed. Still, good to know that you've found Chicago less west coast than Denver. I will put that into the info pile when sorting thru to make decisions.
If you like Cincinnati, St. Louis is practically a carbon copy except that whole part about it being board-flat instead of hilly. I can't really speak about Denver since I haven't been there since I was a kid. But if outdoor activities is your highest priority, then so should Denver be. If you're looking for a balance between city life and easily accessible outdoor recreational opportunities, St. Louis is probably your winner.
St. Louis isn't as hilly as Cincy but it isnt flat as a board either, it's the hilliest of the 3. Denver & Chicago are board flat. But yes, I realize that of the 3, Denver is much closer to hilly & mountainous areas. St. Louis City isn't that hilly, but once you get into the county, you start to get into the Ozarks. You even see rock cliffs on the sides of highways. These areas are not far from the city at all. Maybe 10-15 minutes outside of it.
Chicago crushes St. Louis and most people I've talked to who've lived in Denver don't even like it. It's apparently just your average big city.
Chicago offers everything you would expect from a great big, old city. If you like walking through neighborhoods, you'll absolutely love it.
If you are "outdoorsey" though, short of the lakefront and the parks, it is NOT the place for you. The Midwest doesn't offer 1/10 of the outdoor lifestyle as the coasts or CO.
It's also very expensive, Chicago, but if your SO is a doc you'll be OK.
Chicago is pretty much like NY in a lot of ways. I don't think you can compare it to any other city in America except NY.
If you like BIG, urban cities, you'll like it. If not, you won't!
Chicago crushes St. Louis and most people I've talked to who've lived in Denver don't even like it. It's apparently just your average big city.
Chicago offers everything you would expect from a great big, old city. If you like walking through neighborhoods, you'll absolutely love it.
If you are "outdoorsey" though, short of the lakefront and the parks, it is NOT the place for you. The Midwest doesn't offer 1/10 of the outdoor lifestyle as the coasts or CO.
It's also very expensive, Chicago, but if your SO is a doc you'll be OK.
Chicago is pretty much like NY in a lot of ways. I don't think you can compare it to any other city in America except NY.
If you like BIG, urban cities, you'll like it. If not, you won't!
People who like/love living in Denver, like Colorado as a whole, more than Denver specifically. I think that is true for anywhere where the natural scenery is a major amenity and attraction for people living there.
Chicago may "crush" Chicago (so to speak), however it (St. Louis) does have more cultural and architectural heritage, even if not as big. (since it was bigger than Chicago in much of the 19th century. STL has a bit more European feel with 19th century rowhouses (with Mansard roofs) (google the city hall too), churches, etc.
Chicago has a fair amount of that too, but Chicago was a lot about urban renewal more than most cities, and now it feels like a more up-and-coming, ruthless, workaholic Asian city skyline like Singapore.
Chicago is nothing like New York. If you don't mind driving and things being spread out, LA has way more to offer, people just need to deal with it.
Chicagos North American equal is Toronto. In the US specifically, I'm going to have to go with Philly, although Philly is 10-15 years behing Chicago in revitalization (it was the only major northern city to actually gain population this past census).
Also, Chicagos neighborhoods are on a grid. And the Chicago river branches one can spit across. Cities that have interesting neighborhoods to walk around have some slopes, bigger rivers, and other things to make neighborhoods feel distinct. Chicagos neighborhoods feel distinct more because of racial residential segregation.
One more thing, we may not have mountains in the midwest, but there is a suprising amount of recreational opportunities within an 1.5 hour drive of the city from the Indiana Dunes, the enormous hilly forest preserves of the Palos area, the lake-marsh-hill areas of Lake and McHenry counties, and the cliffs and canyons of the state parks along the Illinois river (starved rock is awesome, but there are others like Mathiessen).
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Chicago is nothing like New York. If you don't mind driving and things being spread out, LA has way more to offer, people just need to deal with it.
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I agree that Chicago isn't really that much like New York. There are some similarities in some neighborhoods, and there are really not many other US cities that have parts that can fill in for New York like Chicago does, but overall Chicago is Chicago - it's not New York.
However, I really don't think LA has "way more" to offer than Chicago does. There are things LA has "way more" of, but there are othet things Chicago has "way more" of and on the whole I think LA and Chicago are closer to being equals that Chicago and New York are.
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Originally Posted by Tex?Il?
Also, Chicagos neighborhoods are on a grid. And the Chicago river branches one can spit across. Cities that have interesting neighborhoods to walk around have some slopes, bigger rivers, and other things to make neighborhoods feel distinct. Chicagos neighborhoods feel distinct more because of racial residential segregation.
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People who like/love living in Denver, like Colorado as a whole, more than Denver specifically. I think that is true for anywhere where the natural scenery is a major amenity and attraction for people living there.
I'd have to say that's quite true. The skiers and hikers leave town as much as possible, and the reason they love Denver is, as you said, Colorado and NOT Denver. The sunshine is a major factor, too, and the one that drew me there. Of course, I do have one friend who left Boston to move back to Denver for the restaurants, but there's a crazy one in every bunch
My out of state friends are always surprised that Denver isn't beautiful, but that's because they're getting it confused with other parts of Colorado, and Denver just does not look like that. I describe it as a smaller Houston with a mountain mural backdrop. That's not quite accurate, but close enough. I find Denver to be brown, flat and it always looks a little "tired" to me, but no doubt that is because I'm comparing it to Seattle and Portland and their ever present green.
I don't want to turn this into a city v. city thing with Cincy and St. Louis. Both are similar. You prefer one. I prefer the other. But just to clear up a few statements:
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Originally Posted by Tex?Il?
I agree that STL does have the edge in terms of outdoor pursuits with the Ozarks not that far, but its not THAT close. It still takes about an hour to get to places with public lands with hiking trails.
I wasn't referring to the Ozarks. I was referring all of the trails and the elevation change just outside of 270. And for what it's worth, you can get from U-City to Eureka in 40 min, and there are lot of trails between the city and Eureka, more north of the city, many with nice vistas overlooking river basins, others with caves, springs, etc.
And have you ever been to some of the bigger forest preserves in Chicagoland? The Palos area would really suprise you. Most Chicago area people are almost unaware of its existence: You can get lost in the woods there (14,000 acres in the whole complex) with 100 foot bluffs in places.
I have. It's probably one of (if not THE) nicest hiking area in a 90 minute drive of downtown. And it still has nothing on some of the areas closer to STL...and while I like it, the idea of hiking along the Cal Sag channel doesn't appeal so much to me.
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Originally Posted by Tex?Il?
The conservative reputation of Cincinnati is largely from the thousands of Appalachians that migrated there looking for work from WWII through the 70s. There are certain neighborhoods where they form a high concentration and it does feel very Kentucky-Baptist no doubt.
The city is plainly and simply a very conservative metro for one of its size, although I do think Cincy's racist reputation is overblown. Look at the last 5 presidential elections, comparing Hamilton Co to only STL Co...which excludes the democratic stronghold of STL city. Hamilton Co went dem once (the last time), while STL Co went dem all five times. What's more, the narrowest dem victory in STL Co was more decisive than the only dem victory in Hamilton Co. I'm not trying to use conservative in a pejorative manner, but the simple fact is Cincy is a conservative town. I grew up in Indy, which is also a conservative town, and Marion Co. voted dem in 2 of the last 5 elections.
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Originally Posted by Tex?Il?
Outside of there, the eclectic, diverse areas of Cincy (Mt. Adams, East Walnut Hills, Gateway quarter of Over-the-Rhine, Clifton/U of Cincy area) are easily among the cool urban neighborhoods that taken individually are just as cool as what you would even find in Chicago.
Cool as in individually looking at a single building and its architecture? Certainly. Cool as in music, theater, art scenes, pedestrian traffic, shopping variety? No...just....no. The Cincinnati chamber of commerce wouldn't even make that claim. [Disclosure: I have never lived in Cincy but grew up close enough to make mutliple annual trips, which probably number in the 40s by now. The last time I was there (last summer), the Touchdown Jesus burned down, so it hasn't been that long.] I like a lot of those neighborhoods, but to say they are as "cool" as their peers in Chicago would be similar to a St. Louisan saying Soulard, CWE, U-City, SouthGrand, etc match Chicago for "cool", eclecticism, etc. No way. They may come closer to it than the STL areas I mentioned, but they aren't Chicago.
I find your post so silly that I am not going to answer it because it is uninteresting to do so. However, I will say that the OP said she lived in NY and that they are considering things such as schools, etc.
I said Chicago is like New York because she had live in NY. Unless she's going to live up in the bungalow belt, she's going to encounter high cost of living, very expensive private schools, high taxes, etc. What does Chicago offer? Primarily the exact same things as NY: A giant urban center with vibrant neighborhoods, restaurants, nightlife, culture, etc.
Yeah, Chicago is uninteresting to walk around. Every time I'm strolling through Wicker Park I think, 'I REALLY wish there was a hill here.'
I find your post so silly that I am not going to answer it because it is uninteresting to do so. However, I will say that the OP said she lived in NY and that they are considering things such as schools, etc.
I said Chicago is like New York because she had live in NY. Unless she's going to live up in the bungalow belt, she's going to encounter high cost of living, very expensive private schools, high taxes, etc. What does Chicago offer? Primarily the exact same things as NY: A giant urban center with vibrant neighborhoods, restaurants, nightlife, culture, etc.
Yeah, Chicago is uninteresting to walk around. Every time I'm strolling through Wicker Park I think, 'I REALLY wish there was a hill here.'
OK, fine, I guess I was sounding a little ignorant in that post.
I guess I was thinking more on the lines that: People talk about Chicago and how its neighborhoods feel SOOOO distinct, and have so much character, and that makes it so different from others.
My point was that all cities have that interesting distinct neighborhoods. And in my opinion having physical features does give a city more distinctions between neighborhoods.
And I do stick to my segregation comment. Just look at how the caucasian, bohemian artists have been pushed out of neighborhoods that have become so popular accompanied by skyrocketing prices. So they move further out into insular, gritty working class hispanic neighborhoods like Pilsen, Humboldt Park, and Logan Square, and are not completely welcome. Despite the fact that they would improve the neighborhood, and any long time residents who has some basic education and skills would really benefit from the influx of bohemian types, as a slight rise in real estate would weed out the gangbangers, etc. they still don't want them to move in.
If you like compactness than Chicagos downtown is only second to New York. However I still stick to the fact that LA still blows Chicago out of the water, if you don't mind things spread out. Chicago although bigger than Philly, its still closer to Philly than New York.
Chicago has almost no media/entertainment industry, and its combined statistical areas is much smaller than NY or LA. This is something major Chicago lacks in terms on comparing it to NY or LA.
I don't want to turn this into a city v. city thing with Cincy and St. Louis. Both are similar. You prefer one. I prefer the other. But just to clear up a few statements:
I wasn't referring to the Ozarks. I was referring all of the trails and the elevation change just outside of 270. And for what it's worth, you can get from U-City to Eureka in 40 min, and there are lot of trails between the city and Eureka, more north of the city, many with nice vistas overlooking river basins, others with caves, springs, etc.
I have. It's probably one of (if not THE) nicest hiking area in a 90 minute drive of downtown. And it still has nothing on some of the areas closer to STL...and while I like it, the idea of hiking along the Cal Sag channel doesn't appeal so much to me.
The city is plainly and simply a very conservative metro for one of its size, although I do think Cincy's racist reputation is overblown. Look at the last 5 presidential elections, comparing Hamilton Co to only STL Co...which excludes the democratic stronghold of STL city. Hamilton Co went dem once (the last time), while STL Co went dem all five times. What's more, the narrowest dem victory in STL Co was more decisive than the only dem victory in Hamilton Co. I'm not trying to use conservative in a pejorative manner, but the simple fact is Cincy is a conservative town. I grew up in Indy, which is also a conservative town, and Marion Co. voted dem in 2 of the last 5 elections.
Cool as in individually looking at a single building and its architecture? Certainly. Cool as in music, theater, art scenes, pedestrian traffic, shopping variety? No...just....no. The Cincinnati chamber of commerce wouldn't even make that claim. [Disclosure: I have never lived in Cincy but grew up close enough to make mutliple annual trips, which probably number in the 40s by now. The last time I was there (last summer), the Touchdown Jesus burned down, so it hasn't been that long.] I like a lot of those neighborhoods, but to say they are as "cool" as their peers in Chicago would be similar to a St. Louisan saying Soulard, CWE, U-City, SouthGrand, etc match Chicago for "cool", eclecticism, etc. No way. They may come closer to it than the STL areas I mentioned, but they aren't Chicago.
I think we can agree to disagree.
Buts I want to say one last thing: Cincys eclectic, funky neighborhoods to the north and east of downtown are a world away from the Appalachian neighborhoods to the west. They might as well be in different cities.
So while Hamilton County maybe conservative as a whole. There is HUGE variation.
Cincy has as much of a long, strong Jewish heritage. I don't want to stereotype any ethnic group even in a good way, but the greater the Jewish population/heritage in a metro area, there is often a correlation between cosmopolitan/progressive/entrepreneurial thinking. This is one of the many things that separate it from a place like Indy or Louisville.
There are many very liberal, Jewish celebrities that grew up or live in Cincy, which to me speak volumes of the place (even if you don't like these individuals): Steven Spielberg, Jerry Springer (yeah I know hes not a cities pride and joy, but he is not reflective of a conservative backwater), Sarah Jessica Parker, and Vidal Sassoon (started a chain of salons).
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You're right! I live in the bubble! I won't pretend otherwise. I lived eastlake in Seattle, the Pearl in Portland, and Wash Park/Cherry Creek in Denver. I just look for the right bubble in the right location, and sadly, I had a hard time finding the right bubble in Denver (LODO isn't The Pearl), and in Chicago, I'd be looking in the same bubbles you suggested. 
