Garfield Ridge or Oak Park? (Chicago, Tinley Park: real estate, apartment complexes, lease)
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Garfield Ridge/Clearing is a good place to live. The neighborhood has a large hispanic population and a large immigrant polish population. There is a contigent of "old school" (1950's style) 3rd and 4th generation south siders that may have some racist attitudes. But don't think that this neighborhood is some segregrated racist enclave that only whites live in. This is evident by the large middle class hispanic population. Funny...but the most segregated and white areas of the chicagoland area are probably the extremely affluent north shore. The southwest side and south suburbs have lots of diversity compared to those places.
In many cases yes, but not always.
Here are some figures from wikipedia:
Now granted, this is 2000 data, but still:
Wikipedia article of Burbank, IL
As of the census of 2000, there were 27,902 people, 9,317 households, and 7,267 families residing in the city. The population density was 6,686.7 people per square mile (2,583.5/km²). There were 9,518 housing units at an average density of 2,281.0/sq mi (881.3/km²). The racial makeup of the city was 90.67% White, 0.26% African American, 0.17% Native American, 1.76% Asian, 0.02% Pacific Islander, 3.95% from other races, and 3.17% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 13.09% of the population, including 8.8% of Mexican descent.
The median income for a household in the city was $49,388, and the median income for a family was $56,279.
Wikipedia article for Oak Lawn
As of the census[3] of 2000, there were 55,245 people, 22,220 households, and 14,554 families residing in the village. The population density was 6,427.3 people per square mile (2,480.3/km²). There were 22,846 housing units at an average density of 2,657.9/sq mi (1,025.7/km²). The racial makeup of the village was 93.35% White, 1.22% Black, 0.17% Native American, 1.73% Asian, 0.01% Pacific Islander, 1.64% from other races, and 1.90% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 5.33% of the population, including 4.3% of Mexican descent.
The median income for a household in the village was $47,585, and the median income for a family was $60,057.
Wikipedia article for Glenview:
As of the census of 2000, there were 41,847 people, 15,464 households, and 11,876 families residing in the village. The population density was 3,111.3 people per square mile (1,201.3/km²). There were 15,853 housing units at an average density of 1,178.7/sq mi (455.1/km²). The racial makeup of the village was 85.59% White, 1.59% African American, 0.10% Native American, 10.05% Asian, 0.02% Pacific Islander, 1.27% from other races, and 1.38% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 4.07% of the population. As of 2009 there were 44,443 residents.
According to a 2008 estimate, the median income for a household in the village was $105,879, and the median income for a family was $123,987.
Wikipedia article for Evanston:
As of the census[14] of 2000, there were 74,239 people, 29,651 households, and 15,952 families residing in the city. The population density was 9,584.1 people per square mile (3,698.6/km²). There were 30,817 housing units at an average density of 3,978.4/sq mi (1,535.3/km²). The 2000 census showed that Evanston is ethnically mixed with the following breakdown in population: 62.56% white, 22.50% black or African American, 6.09% Asian, and 2.85% from other races. 6.11% were Hispanic or Latino of any race.
Evanston is economically diverse. According to a 2007 estimate, the median income for a household in the city was $69,303, and the median income for a family was $102,258.
Many upper middle class to upscale areas including the north suburbs have rather high percentage of Asians, and Jews as well (at least certain ones) Communities that are a little more "new money" tend to attract professionals from all over the world including many Asians.
Take a look at this: You can see that many if not most southwest suburbs between I-55 and I-57 are very white.
Garfield Ridge/Clearing is a good place to live. The neighborhood has a large hispanic population and a large immigrant polish population. There is a contigent of "old school" (1950's style) 3rd and 4th generation south siders that may have some racist attitudes. But don't think that this neighborhood is some segregrated racist enclave that only whites live in. This is evident by the large middle class hispanic population. Funny...but the most segregated and white areas of the chicagoland area are probably the extremely affluent north shore. The southwest side and south suburbs have lots of diversity compared to those places.
Well, I'm sure you've seen the census reports for 2010. Clearing/Garfield Ridge saw a more than 100% increase in hispanics and a noticeable change in whites. If you've been following what's happened to all of the other neighborhoods along 55, you'll see where Garfield Ridge and Clearing are ultimately headed. With Oak Park, you KNOW what you get. With the influx of hisapnics in Brighton Park, Gage Park, etc .. there has been noticeable increase in crime, gang activity and so on.
So, I'm not sure why you think Garfield Ridge/Clearing is OK in the long run.
Ok, first I do not think your "north shore" examples are very good. I would not consider Evanston an example of the affluent North Shore, nor is Glenview really. Lets get the numbers on Winnetka, Glencoe, Highland Park, Lake Forest, Kenilworth, Mettawa, etc. Secondly, areas like Oak Lawn and Burbank are certainly more diverse now than they were more than a decade ago. Whereas, I can almost guarantee that these North Shore communities I have listed are still nearly completely white, with maybe a few people of Asian decent added in the last decade.
Last edited by Brian45919; 04-07-2011 at 04:15 PM..
Well, I'm sure you've seen the census reports for 2010. Clearing/Garfield Ridge saw a more than 100% increase in hispanics and a noticeable change in whites. If you've been following what's happened to all of the other neighborhoods along 55, you'll see where Garfield Ridge and Clearing are ultimately headed. With Oak Park, you KNOW what you get. With the influx of hisapnics in Brighton Park, Gage Park, etc .. there has been noticeable increase in crime, gang activity and so on.
So, I'm not sure why you think Garfield Ridge/Clearing is OK in the long run.
I'm surprised to hear these old school white flight types of attitudes. This types of thinking is what destroys neighborhoods. Especially from someone that does not even live in this part of town. So take this guys advice, and don't come here if you don't want to live near people of hispanic descent. Since I live here, I can vouch that most of the hispanics in this area are home owners on the same socio-economic level as the whites. Looks like he is living up to his label as a "drivel spewer."
I would caution that buying a low priced home in either Oak Park or Garfield Ridge would be rather risky. Renting in an area with more suburban amenities might be a wiser choice for some one unfamiliar with the region.
If you hate urban living so much, why do you even bother to visit, much less, post on the Chicago forum. I don't care for Indiana, therefore I never bother visiting the Indiana forum.
Ok, first I do not think your "north shore" examples are very good. I would not consider Evanston an example of the affluent North Shore, nor is Glenview really. Lets get the numbers on Winnetka, Glencoe, Highland Park, Lake Forest, Kenilworth, Mettawa, etc. Secondly, areas like Oak Lawn and Burbank are certainly more diverse now than they were more than a decade ago. Whereas, I can almost guarantee that these North Shore communities I have listed are still nearly completely white, with maybe a few people of Asian decent added in the last decade.
Evanston and Glenview are still north shore suburbs. They are not the most homogenous suburbs, but that was my point. There are affluent north suburbs that are more diverse than people realize.
And yes traditionally white inner ring working class suburbs are becoming more diverse everywhere. So what. That doesn't change the attitude of many of the long time residents.
I think deep down, some people almost want socioeconomic indicators to remain along racial lines because it fuels some political motive. (I'm not saying thats you however, so don't think I am aiming that at you).
Its too bad Chicagoland isn't more like Miami with its affluent Cuban population, or San Antonio with wealthy Mexican families that have been there for generations.
It diffuses potential racial tensions, when a larger number of minorities are well off. This has to be what the Chicago area is like. You can still be judged if you are from a more upper middle class community.
you'll see where Garfield Ridge and Clearing are ultimately headed. With Oak Park, you KNOW what you get. With the influx of hisapnics in Brighton Park, Gage Park, etc .. there has been noticeable increase in crime, gang activity and so on.
So, I'm not sure why you think Garfield Ridge/Clearing is OK in the long run.
Translation, if you don't like Mexicans, don't move to Garfield Ridge.
The risk for some one relocating from outside the region is much greater than some one who has had time to explore the changes that one sees from block-to-block, school boundary, and even patterns of development from various stores and community organizations.
It is all but impossible to get enough detail on those kinds of things from afar.
The reality is that there some parts of Oak Park where a saavy individual is unlikely to be taking much risk at all, and other parts where changes that some might a positive could greatly reduce the value of home. In such situations it makes far more sense to rent.
I suppose the same sort of admonishment might apply to other low priced homes even in more desirable suburbs, but in general the more desirable suburbs are far less likely to have issues with safety or school attendance areas.
This is really not about the individual affordabilty of any one house, but the broader based trends that make purchasing in some towns a much less risky move.
If some one from outside the area has their heart set on buying ASAP my recommendation is to find the best priced home in the most expensive suburb. In such cases any negatives ought to be very obvious -- like a house that backs up to a commercial zone or something, and the odds of some "redevlopment" effort, crime pocket or school boundary problem are less likely to result in shifts in value harming your investment...
I agree that people should get familiar with an area before purchasing, however, Oak Park has had a history of repelling decline and white flight, considering the decline of the Austin area. I don't know if some of the more affluent areas would do much better under similar conditions.
I suppose if you were to buy on the first couple of streets west of Austin you'd be taking more of a risk however Oak Park as a whole has stayed pretty strong.
It is tough to compare Cubans to Mexicans or even Tex-mex as you are trying to compare middle-class cubans and multi-generational texmex people to first and second generation mexicans, often from impoverished village backgrounds.
My guess is that in 50 years the hispanics in Chicago will more closely mirror established texmex folks.
I think you have a totally different dynamic with cubans.
I definitely think the 1-55 corridor is in transition. I don't know if it is getting worse, just more hispanic working class instead of white working class.
It is nothing like the 1-290 corridor, which is one of the worst areas in chicago apart from the englewood area. From basically damen (2000w) to austin (6000w) the area is uninhabitable to most people in Chicago (between division 1200n and roosevelt 1200s).
I, like many posters don't really care what color you are as long as you work and contribute to society. It is those who do not work and mooch off the system who I have a problem with.
I still find it really odd how Oak Park is surrounded by hispanic areas and has very few hispanics.
Several people I have spoken with assumed my girlfriend is arab, not mexican.
Again, to get back to topic, Oak Park is your better option. Basically stable area and diverse as a whole (not including hispanics). Lots of educated and open-minded people. Similar dynamic to evanston with the lake or northwestern (dominican and concordia are in a different league).
Translation, if you don't like Mexicans, don't move to Garfield Ridge.
... he says to someone who lives in Albany Park.
No translation is necessary. Crime has been up in ClearRidge and one can get a preview of what to expect there in the future from neighborhoods to the east and northeast that have already undergone the demographic shift that ClearRidge is now experiencing. If you like what's going on in Marquette Park or Brighton Park or Gage Park, well there's good news because ClearRidge looks to be headed in that direction. If you want to wave the "racism" flag, go ahead. But the truth is a stubborn thing that does not bend to accusations of racism.
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