Morgan park? (Morton: foreclose, house, neighborhoods)

[Runuova]

Can anyone inform me on Morgan Park? Particularly around the high school. Please advise me on the areas to avoid, as well as any forthcoming improvements to the immediate area or surrounding neighborhoods.

[ajolotl]

Morgan Park: Mostly, stay anywhere west of prospect between 107 and 111th. South of 111th look Longwood or west. The nicest part of morgan park is between 107th and 111th longwood and west, but the other parts mentioned are quite nice (if more modest) as well. The part north of 111th west of longwood is, for all practical purposes, just Beverly. The area is very beautiful. Not bad up the hill south of 111th also (some spectacular homes) but not quite as impressive.

The high school -- great for CPS non-magnet, pretty sucky though by normal standards. I'll warn you that there is a huge difference between how blacks and whites perceive it. I'm white so take my opinion for what it is. You need to ask around. Certainly, there are lots of good kids who go there. Definitely some rough ones also. Overall 10x better than Julian up the street.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by ajolotl

The high school -- great for CPS non-magnet, pretty sucky though by normal standards. I'll warn you that there is a huge difference between how blacks and whites perceive it. I'm white so take my opinion for what it is. You need to ask around. Certainly, there are lots of good kids who go there. Definitely some rough ones also.

This is pretty much the situation in our community too. Some view Morton West as a great school. Others will pay $30,000 in commissions, moving and closing costs, buy a house at the absolute edge of their budget (to the point where they'll foreclose almost instantly if one wage earner loses their job), and pay 3x the annual property taxes for the rest of their natural born lives just to avoid their precious angels having to go there for 4 years. Either there's a complete disconnect in logic going on somewhere or we've got some serious work to do with our school systems and race relations.

[oakparkdude]

Originally Posted by ajolotl

The high school -- great for CPS non-magnet, pretty sucky though by normal standards. I'll warn you that there is a huge difference between how blacks and whites perceive it. I'm white so take my opinion for what it is. You need to ask around.

Interesting. Is it because of different standards/expectations? Perhaps white parents compare it to New Trier/Stevenson and black parents compare it to other CPS high schools?

[BRU67]

Priorities are different. Parents in lower income groups do not tend to value education as much and would look at things like neighborhood affordability over test scores. Higher income groups are completely obsessed with test scores not only for the good of their children, but often to have bragging rights that they are in the "top" school district.

A nice compromise would be a system that actually benefits our kids as a whole and depends less on the whims of the parents (which often aren't wholly aligned with what's best for the kids).

[oakparkdude]

Originally Posted by BRU67

Priorities are different. Parents in lower income groups do not tend to value education as much and would look at things like neighborhood affordability over test scores. Higher income groups are completely obsessed with test scores not only for the good of their children, but often to have bragging rights that they are in the "top" school district.

A nice compromise would be a system that actually benefits our kids as a whole and depends less on the whims of the parents (which often aren't wholly aligned with what's best for the kids).

If difference in perception is strictly due to class differences, that's not particularly notable nor out of the ordinary.

[BRU67]

I think it's more about priorities being aligned differently, which creates the perception that schools which don't perform well are good schools (maybe the more correct term is complacency?) Unfortunately, that is impacting the kids (on both sides), so I would argue that it is notable.

If Community A is not putting an appropriate priority on education, and Community B is, kids in Community A will be at disadvantage compared to those in Community B by no fault of their own. And if there are 5 Community A's to 1 Community B, that could impact our nation's future global competitiveness, thereby becoming everyone's problem. This is one faulty value system we should seek to correct.

[ajolotl]

Originally Posted by oakparkdude

Interesting. Is it because of different standards/expectations? Perhaps white parents compare it to New Trier/Stevenson and black parents compare it to other CPS high schools?

My opinion is that it's half that blacks have lower standards for historical reasons, and half is perception -- ie that whites are automatically conditioned to see suckiness wherever they see blacks, which takes a scenario that maybe is a bit worse but potentially workable and turns it into living hell on earth (which is far from the truth).

[ajolotl]

Originally Posted by BRU67

This is pretty much the situation in our community too. Some view Morton West as a great school. Others will pay $30,000 in commissions, moving and closing costs, buy a house at the absolute edge of their budget (to the point where they'll foreclose almost instantly if one wage earner loses their job), and pay 3x the annual property taxes for the rest of their natural born lives just to avoid their precious angels having to go there for 4 years. Either there's a complete disconnect in logic going on somewhere or we've got some serious work to do with our school systems and race relations.

That's interesting. In Beverly there are tales of white parents who were brought to the ledge when they lost their jobs and faced the possibility of having to yank their kids from one of the Catholic high schools and put them in Morgan Park.

That said there are a couple of hundred white kids who go there. I have a white neighbor who have an 11th grader who doesn't seem to mind it too much as far as I can tell. Apparently the Principal has done everything possible to diversify the school, but it hasn't worked. I don't think it's a dangerous place -- it's next to a spiffy police station in a pretty decent neighborhood, but the test scores (50% passing rate on whatever that test is) and racial balance would keep most whites away, especially since many people in beverly can easily afford the catholic schools.

[ajolotl]

I should also mention the obvious -- in addition to the racial component there is a strong class component esp from blacks that is independent of race. There are very, very snooty, economically well off blacks all over beverly who look down on everything, including people who live east of the tracks (ie me), and who send their kids to expensive private schools downtown.

Always tough to boil everything down to one simple idea. Lots of things mixed together.