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We currently live in Chicago but would like to move to one of the closer suburbs of Chicago.The work destination is in the Illinois Medical District area. We are inclined towards Elmhurst or La Grange, but are still open to other suburbs as well.
We have several questions about both suburbs:
1. How is the daily commute like to the Illinois Medical District area from Elmhurst/La Grange?
2. Which is the more prosperous part of Elmhurst and La Grange, along with having good public schools?
3. Are there any nice subdivisions in these suburbs
with new homes in the 800,000-100,0000 range?
The "medical district area" is well located for access from the Eisenhower or Ogden Ave. -- a pretty good percentage of physicians and medical professionals are thus located in the Western Suburbs. There is some ability to take public transit too, but that is not nearly as popular. Of course if you were considering Oak Park that might change the public transit option. The commute is pretty aggravating on the Eisenhower due to the lane configuration and large number of exits, including left exits at Harlem and Austin. Most people coming from La Grange find it is no slower to take surface streets. Expect to spend about 50 minutes door-to-door at average peak commute times, this is easily cut in half when the Eisenhower is empty -- typically very early in the AM (like before 5:30 AM) or rather late (like after 7:30 PM). These are actually popular times for medical people who can schedule surgery very early and/or coordinate with the night shift...
La Grange has a relatively large number of more expensive homes clustered in several sections -- while nowhere near as tightly delineated as neighborhoods in Chicago this is the prevalent style of development, NOT subdivisions like you'd find in Oak Brook or Schaumburg. Some of the more expensive sections would be near the country club that is east of Edgewood and west of Brainard between 47th & 55th (the neighborhood is larger) and also encompasses Waiola Park, though obviously proximity to desirable parks is always a plus there are also folks that prefer other sections. North of this section but still south of the Burlington tracks is probably the greatest concentration of tear downs, so property values have soared. La Grange Rd itself runs through the "historic district" with some older mansion sized homes, though this falls off rapidly on the east side. Continuing north and back west the homes may generally be a bit smaller, though still desirable and and probably a bit lower than your range... Renovated homes make more sense than teardowns if the lot size decreases, as may be the case on some streets, though there are exceptions and cases where developers have combined lots to give a bigger buildable area.
In Elmhurst the predominate pattern is also the grid/traditional neighborhood, though there are exceptions. Here too it is fair to say that there is no one area that is most prosperous. In years past the "Wilder Park/College Hill" area was head and shoulders more expensive, but as teardowns have lead to many large homes in area that formerly had more modest dwelling that is no longer the case. Starting at the southern end of Elmhurst around Butterfield Rd there have been many teardowns that continue through the traditional heart of town between St. Charles and tail off nearer to North Ave. The section north of North is significantly less desirable. There are similar distinctions when moving from east to west, with sections west of Spring and too close to 290/294 being less desirable.
In your price range it would be foolish to overlook Oak Brook, which has a very high percentage of physicians, Western Springs (to the east of La Grange), Hinsdale and Clarendon Hills. With the exception of Oak Brook, all have traditional grid (or slightly curvilinear in CH) neighborhoods with classic downtowns, though quieter than La Grange/Elmhurst. All would be nearly identical in terms of commutes. It may be a challenge to find a brand new home in that price range, though there are probably some builders that could accomodate, and there are many homes that are less than 5 years old that would be in the range you listed.
I am extremely familar with these areas and could describe more than the terms of service allow...
Lyons Township HS also was included in both Newsweek's and US News & World Report's Best High Schools lists. York HS's academic offerings were not strong enough to be included in either list.
Even the ISBE says that the numbers are not intended to directly compare schools -- ie a school that is few percentage higher or lower in the list is not why the School Report Cards exist. The intent is to alert communities that are not making progress on state goals and provide an incentive for schools to improve...
The criteria used by Newsweek is flat out goofy -- I know some of those schools (like Lincoln Park High & RiversideBrookfield) have such a small but successful group of students that it completely distorts the rest of the scoring. When one "ranks" anything there ought to be high correlation to outside rankings and the the Newsweek falls on it face their.
The USN rankings suffer the same problem. All their "Gold" winners in Illinois are magnet schools except for Stevenson. That completely does not jibe with data from the Illinois State School report cards that use broader measures of success for all students. The USN "silver" category includes far too many school that clearly have little in common with one another...
York has had its ups and downs. Its academic peak was quite high, and there was a time that it was well regarded than Hinsdale Central. Other schools have had a more consistent high ranking, but York is coming on strongly. I think that no parent should have any concerns that York is any less good an academic experience than Lyons. I am fairly sure that York will rise significantly in the rankings as the demographic impact of shifts in the community filter through to the high school.
We currently live in Chicago but would like to move to one of the closer suburbs of Chicago.The work destination is in the Illinois Medical District area. We are inclined towards Elmhurst or La Grange, but are still open to other suburbs as well.
We have several questions about both suburbs:
1. How is the daily commute like to the Illinois Medical District area from Elmhurst/La Grange?.
You didn't say where in the IMD, so I guess the short answer is "it depends". If you are affiliated with Rush or UIC, there are shuttle buses to and from Union Station which give you a Metra option. If you are West of there, or are not affiliated with UIC or Rush, you will likely be driving.
Assuming you are driving, there are two routes:
1. The Stevenson. On at First Avenue, off at Damen, north to the IMD.
2. Ogden. LaGrange to Brookfield to Lyons to Berwyn to Cicero to Lawndale to Douglas Park. Make a right on Roosevelt Road/Western into the IMD.
Most people would probably take the Stevenson, but either of these routes argues for living south of the Burlington tracks. The A.M. and P.M. commuter trains take five minutes to load and unload, so you don't want to cross the tracks, and Ogden/La Grange road is a really bad intersection at rush hour.
Assuming you are south of the tracks, you can figure roughly 40 minutes via either route.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neeshera
2. Which is the more prosperous part of Elmhurst and La Grange, along with having good public schools?.
La Grange is not a poor community and all of the schools are excellent. Lyons Township is one of the most highly-regarded high schools in the Western Suburbs, and its reputation is not hype. People in the area fund it generously, which has not always been the case for York. A key thing to remember about LT, though, is that it is one of the most heavily-tracked high schools around. And from the students' perspective, what track you are in makes all the difference in the world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neeshera
3. Are there any nice subdivisions in these suburbs with new homes in the 800,000-100,0000 range? .
La Grange is not a place that one normally assoicates with subdivisions. Its claim to fame is its historic district, with its beautiful side streets. The country club area, as was mentioned previously is where you will find most of the new or newer construction around there. There have also been a substantial number of teardowns and semi-teardowns in south La Grange in recent years.
Other suburbs? Riverside and Oak Park would both shave 10 minutes off of your commute, and Oak Park would give you a CTA option. From Riverside, you would almost certainly be driving, probably down Ogden.
York has had its ups and downs. Its academic peak was quite high, and there was a time that it was well regarded than Hinsdale Central. Other schools have had a more consistent high ranking, but York is coming on strongly. I think that no parent should have any concerns that York is any less good an academic experience than Lyons. I am fairly sure that York will rise significantly in the rankings as the demographic impact of shifts in the community filter through to the high school.
How and why has York High School slipped so far?
The reason York doesn't compare well with Hinsdale, Naperville's High Schools, Lyons Township, and any of the other USN&WR Gold and Silver medal winning high schools is because they offer too few Advanced Placement classes. Subsequently, Elmhurst's K-8 schools aren't academically preparing students to achieve at the Advanced Placement class level.
York's School Improvement Plan states that 92% of York graduates continue on to college. But, only 30% of York students are adequately prepared to have a 75% chance of earning a C or better in first year college-level courses according to ACT College Readiness Benchmarks.
This Daily Herald chart shows the college readiness percentage for the five Unit School Districts in DuPage County. The last column is the percentage of students who meet all four ACT subset standards — and are considered ready for first year college-level courses.
Moderator cut: copyright
With so many conflicting views, I am nowhere near taking a decision.
The commute description worries me. Would it be better to stay put in Chicago? We currently get on LSD around 7 and it's not too bad.
We would like to move for the reason that we want more living space and a nice backyard in on of the new constructions in a neighbourhood with similar housing. There are many new constructions in Chicago but more often than not, they stand out as an oddity amongst small, older homes.
We have looked around in Chicago for the whole of last year and I am so disappointed we have still not come across something that steals our heart away, inspite of our upper price range.
I understand your concern with the commute -- it is definitely a trade off. The only way to really decide is to actually do it once or twice and see how it impacts you. It is quite variable with traffic and time, but I do believe that many people have just a lenghty total commutes going from point-to-point within the City.
If you spend a weeknight at an Oak Brook. LaGrange or Burr Ridge area hotel that might give you a pretty good idea of the sort of commute you'd really be facing. Whether it will be on the expressways or surface streets it will be different and of course as you get accustomed to it does tend become more tolerable.
There are simple far more single family homes with decent sized yards in the 'burbs. The quiet in pretty much every 'burb will have no equal in any Chicago neighborhood. Your money will undoubtedly go much farther, both initially and in the lower cost of living/taxes.
There are sections of all the towns that I've mentioned that have newer homes that integrate pretty well their surroundings, though certainly there are some areas that have an unappealing mix of homes. You must plan on spending some time to really SHOP the towns that you are interested in before you go further. Prime "open house" season is just kicking off now; I'd be shocked if you did not find something that is very desirable.
RE: Daily Herald Series
I am sure InformedConsent knows that the schools included in the Daily Herald list are only the ones chosen by the Daily Herald as part of it primary circulation coverage. Lyons Township is nowhere to be found as part of that data. Further the small chart covers only "unit school districts" where a single administration supervises k-12. I have no idea why they choose to do this, as it should be obvious that because of mobility issues there is no way to no whether the education that students get in unit districts is anymore coordinated than those that experience separate elementary and secondary districts. Most shockingly the Daily Herald choose to produce a chart that has some sort of composite data that artificially tracks students from elementary schools into the high schools districts. Doing this manipulation adds an additional layer of slight of hand to the sausage making -- you'd really have to possess expert level knowledge to tease out the useful info in such a format. I am not even certain that the data contains any useful info -- here is a glaring problem: The data for Oak Brook District 53 contains NO INFO for the ACT results, those kids would attend Hinsdale Central in District 86, though that District also covers Hinsdale South and many feeder districts which apparently are outside the Daily Herald's primary circulation...
Daily Herald | A decade of school funding (http://www.dailyherald.com/packages/2007/schoollfinance/chapter10.htm - broken link)
I don't need to "defend" York because there has been no new data presented to support any assertion that any INDIVIDUAL school in a desirable part of D205 does not "adequately prepare students" to have individual success at the college of their choosing. The soup/stew/sausage of data that these "reports" present is too easily presented as an accurate picture of student experience. It is nothing more than the amalgam of results that have been too heavily influenced by the least well prepared students hitting the district at a time when it resources were in decline. If you care to read the admittedly biased propaganda that the district produces you might see why I am confidant that aggregated scores will rise. Welcome to District 205 (http://www.elmhurst.k12.il.us/about_205.htm - broken link)
I don't need to "defend" York because there has been no new data presented to support any assertion that any INDIVIDUAL school in a desirable part of D205 does not "adequately prepare students" to have individual success at the college of their choosing. The soup/stew/sausage of data that these "reports" present is too easily presented as an accurate picture of student experience.
Why would you need to defend any school at all?
I was asking for information on why and how York slipped to slightly above average, because you said that York was considered better than Hinsdale at one point in time.
All of the school districts compared in the DH series were subject to the same analysis of data, so they are being compared in similar terms. College readiness percentage is information I would want to know as a parent of children who want to go to college.
Quote:
It is nothing more than the amalgam of results that have been too heavily influenced by the least well prepared students hitting the district at a time when it resources were in decline.
Unless there was a huge, sudden influx of students who were functioning below grade level, the result wouldn't be a surprisingly low 30% college readiness rate among the 92% of students who wanted to go to college.
What do you mean by least prepared? How did they come to be so unprepared?
Quote:
If you care to read the admittedly biased propaganda that the district produces you might see why I am confidant that aggregated scores will rise. Welcome to District 205 (http://www.elmhurst.k12.il.us/about_205.htm - broken link)
Of course they're not going to admit to their residents that achievement levels are declining after they recently convinced voters to approve three(?) different referendums that must have increased local property taxes. The Elmhurst School District's debt load grew from $474 per student in 1999 to over $18,000 per student in 2006.
Daily Herald's bond debt Excel file:
http://www.dailyherald.com/packages/2007/schoollfinance/chapter9excel.xls (broken link)
Last edited by InformedConsent; 04-14-2008 at 03:11 PM..
Look, I don't want to get into a discussion of school finance of this thread. It has almost nothing to do with the quality of schools/choice of where to live. (almost nothing...)
I am not going to back down on my assertion that no data has been presented suggesting that students from desirable elementary schools in D205 will be inadequately prepared for success in high school and college. I think the Daily Herald was/is unnecessarily alarmist in their coverage of the data about the percentage of students that perform well on the ACT as a measure of college preparedness. When you cite "district wide" numbers this is misleading. Look at district wide data for D299 (Chicago) and then try to explain the results of Northside, Payton, Whitney Young or the kids Lincoln Park High in the International Baccalaureate Program.
You did need not experience just a huge surge in kids getting to a school under prepared, you also can have a dramatic fall off in the well prepared and even middle performing kids because of shifts of demographics (another topic I am well equipped to discuss should you care to). Couple that fall off with resources that did not keep pace with other towns and you have a perfect storm that caused results to suffer. Any school that has a cadre of 25 National Merit award winners is not the academic wasteland you seem to want to believe: http://www.lwvelmhurst.org/observerschool102207.pdf (broken link) {I'll save you the trouble and point out that are several other schools (including Hinsdale Central & LT in the OP's original targeted towns) that had more, but I do feel compelled to point out there are many measures of how likely it is that students will be well prepared to succeed in selective colleges.}
btw If you want to take the subject of school finance to another thread/forum and discuss how it may relate to choosing a town to live in I would be more than happy to continue that discussion. I fear continuing to do so here will bring the wrath of the mods down upon us.
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