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Geezus, Atlanta is larger and more urban than Charlotte. This we all know. But its still a very LARGE (larger version) of pick most any sunbelt city. And like many other sunbelt cities they sprawl. I don't think this is by any means a negative as in the case with Charlotte. Most people value space and property. It's just a product of how these cities evolved over time. Is it possible to live in "urban" environments in each city? Of course. Will they ever look like Baltimore of Philly? Of course not, who tf cares. Both have pros and cons...more pros in my opinion.
Walk scores..whatever. It's great big southern city, that's why I like Atlanta so much.
Geezus, Atlanta is larger and more urban than Charlotte. This we all know. But its still a very LARGE (larger version) of pick most any sunbelt city. And like many other sunbelt cities they sprawl. I don't think this is by any means a negative as in the case with Charlotte. Most people value space and property. It's just a product of how these cities evolved over time. Is it possible to live in "urban" environments in each city? Of course. Will they ever look like Baltimore of Philly? Of course not, who tf cares. Both have pros and cons...more pros in my opinion.
Walk scores..whatever. It's great big southern city, that's why I like Atlanta so much.
Im sorry but every city is a bigger verson of something but that does not mean they are alike,
Its about being accurate.No one has said ATL and CLT are not similar but when a poster makes comments that are just patently false,it should be corrected.
I could find Downtown Macon urban if I had to move there and if thats what I wanted .Downtown Macon has some density it walkable and has transit options.There are residential,bars,and retail all mixed in together.
Yet the difference in say Savannah is stark.The level of my ability to live an urban lifestyle in either city varies greatly and this is no difference.
Atlanta wont llok like Philly or Bmore from an architectural standpoint but there are just as many areas in ATL that are urban enough that look like areas in cities like DC and Philly just as there are areas that look like Charlotte. Thats where this argument is with Charlote485 seems to be.He/she cant accept that both parallels exist.
Size has absolutely NOTHING to do with it.
Savannah,Charleston,Richmond,Annapolis etc are just some examples. Those cities have that urbanity because it was built that way from the ground up.
Atlanta has had a traditionally urban footprint before the age of cars and sprawl as its growth was during the same period many established cities were growing.It resembles Charlotte now mainly because of social and economic woes where the disinvestment pretty much emptied the city of people,buildings and business.
So you have the earlier more urban footprint along with the suburban sprawl both cities are known for.
Im sorry but every city is a bigger verson of something but that does not mean they are alike,
Its about being accurate.No one has said ATL and CLT are not similar but when a poster makes comments that are just patently false,it should be corrected.
I could find Downtown Macon urban if I had to move there and if thats what I wanted .Downtown Macon has some density it walkable and has transit options.There are residential,bars,and retail all mixed in together.
Yet the difference in say Savannah is stark.The level of my ability to live an urban lifestyle in either city varies greatly and this is no difference.
Atlanta wont llok like Philly or Bmore from an architectural standpoint but there are just as many areas in ATL that are urban enough that look like areas in cities like DC and Philly just as there are areas that look like Charlotte. Thats where this argument is with Charlote485 seems to be.He/she cant accept that both parallels exist.
Size has absolutely NOTHING to do with it.
Savannah,Charleston,Richmond,Annapolis etc are just some examples. Those cities have that urbanity because it was built that way from the ground up.
Atlanta has had a traditionally urban footprint before the age of cars and sprawl as its growth was during the same period many established cities were growing.It resembles Charlotte now mainly because of social and economic woes where the disinvestment pretty much emptied the city of people,buildings and business.
So you have the earlier more urban footprint along with the suburban sprawl both cities are known for.
Didn't say that. I used the term MOST southern sprawling sunbelt cities share more commonalities with each other than other cities in the US. And to an extent, there are cultural correlations with Charlotte/Atlanta due to geographic proximity. I too agree, there are areas in both cities that have elements of the traditional more urban northern cities. No matter how you slice it though, Atlanta is a very big southern version of most mid-size sunbelt cities. Even old Charlotte had a decent vintage "urban" footprint prior to urban renewal. By no means did it compare to old Atlanta or the other cities you mentioned.
Im sorry but every city is a bigger verson of something but that does not mean they are alike,
Its about being accurate.No one has said ATL and CLT are not similar but when a poster makes comments that are just patently false,it should be corrected.
I could find Downtown Macon urban if I had to move there and if thats what I wanted .Downtown Macon has some density it walkable and has transit options.There are residential,bars,and retail all mixed in together.
Yet the difference in say Savannah is stark.The level of my ability to live an urban lifestyle in either city varies greatly and this is no difference.
Atlanta wont llok like Philly or Bmore from an architectural standpoint but there are just as many areas in ATL that are urban enough that look like areas in cities like DC and Philly just as there are areas that look like Charlotte. Thats where this argument is with Charlote485 seems to be.He/she cant accept that both parallels exist.
Size has absolutely NOTHING to do with it.
Savannah,Charleston,Richmond,Annapolis etc are just some examples. Those cities have that urbanity because it was built that way from the ground up.
Atlanta has had a traditionally urban footprint before the age of cars and sprawl as its growth was during the same period many established cities were growing.It resembles Charlotte now mainly because of social and economic woes where the disinvestment pretty much emptied the city of people,buildings and business.
So you have the earlier more urban footprint along with the suburban sprawl both cities are known for.
Your last paragraph is all I will point out because I’m not concerned with pointing out differences between ATL and cities that are nothing like it.
“It resembles Charlotte now .....” . Charlotte doesn’t even look like Charlotte back in the day. It had streetcars and stuff too. The urban renewal in clt might’ve been more extreme. Regardless of the past, today there are similarities. Lots.
I could easily prove my point were I to argue Charlotte isn’t like Atlanta and such. I’ve seen many Atlantans roll their eyes when charlotteans claim to be growing different, more centralized or growing less like Atlanta. They’re quick to point oit the similarities and clt being a tiny Atlanta.
Charlotte now .....†. Charlotte doesn’t even look like Charlotte back in the day. It had streetcars and stuff too. The urban renewal in clt might’ve been more extreme. Regardless of the past, today there are similarities. Lots.
Oh there's no question; urban renewal in Charlotte was definitely more extreme. That's why Midtown Atlanta, which is a newer commercial district, compares better to Uptown Charlotte architecturally than downtown Atlanta.
Your last paragraph is all I will point out because I’m not concerned with pointing out differences between ATL and cities that are nothing like it.
“It resembles Charlotte now .....†. Charlotte doesn’t even look like Charlotte back in the day. It had streetcars and stuff too. The urban renewal in clt might’ve been more extreme. Regardless of the past, today there are similarities. Lots.
I could easily prove my point were I to argue Charlotte isn’t like Atlanta and such. I’ve seen many Atlantans roll their eyes when charlotteans claim to be growing different, more centralized or growing less like Atlanta. They’re quick to point oit the similarities and clt being a tiny Atlanta.
Quote:
Midtown has a publix! That’s my point. Between downtown and midtown, a publix and a Walmart 1 mile away. A very suburban format Walmart that you could find in Jonesboro, GA.
I thought you would’ve shown a Walmart with an urban format like the one in DC
I showed you a Publix
Quote:
Then midtown Charlotte, which too is on the border of uptown, has a Target, BJ’s, Trader Joe’s, Marshall’s, Petco and some other retailers
So how is this picture where the same stores are in Atlanta not different from your picture?Your picture if of a mall with very little pedestrian activity or street front stores
So how is this picture where the same stores are in Atlanta not different from your picture?Your picture if of a mall with very little pedestrian activity or street front stores
Random pictures of a holiday event (Christmas tree lighting?) and a rendering of an H&M... I don’t care about a little block or a development. Because those pictures could be anywhere. Zoom out a bit. A little big bigger picture...
These pictures remind me of how stark the difference between urban centers like DC versus ATL & other sunbelt cities are.
I agree with these local Atlantans:
Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech
So basically, for some reason you thought Atlanta was London, and it turned out that Atlanta was Atlanta. Well, for shame, Atlanta, for shame! FYI, you could have saved yourself some time and money and just used Google Maps street view.
Atlanta is a really fantastic place, and there are tons of people walking around everywhere around the city on nice days, and tons of people dining outside. You just have to know the city to know the parts and pockets where most of the pedestrian activity is (not much of that on Peachtree St- a road that is indeed a cars-oriented corridor). A few hours just doesn't cut it at all. I've been around here almost 33 years and I'm still learning things about the city and finding new and interesting places.
Atlanta is Atlanta. It's not an old and densely packed core like Boston, it's an automobile-golden-age sunbelt city, based around the automobile. That is a simple fact, and is readily available information so I'm not sure why you were surprised.
With that said, 100% with you that I'd like to see things become more pedestrian and urban oriented, more human scale, especially in Midtown and Downtown. 1 car lane each way with low speed limit, no turn lanes, wide sidewalks, and bike lanes, and bus only curb lanes. It's not up to me, but if it were up to me, I'd make Peachtree St (and every street in the city), more like its awesome smaller immediate neighbor one block away, Crescent Ave: https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7845...7i13312!8i6656
Ahem, note the people walking around and dining outside here.
Did you ride MARTA to Decatur, and walk around downtown, see all the activity there?
The other huge thing, if you want to see a lot of activity, you need to check it out on a Saturday, on a 75 degree day in May or in the fall. People are at work during the week, they're not out glamorously walking around.
But yes, with that being said, it's got a very long way to go to be an urban and pedestrian oriented city. Needs to orient things around humans instead of cars, in order to achieve that goal, if that is your goal. Some people love driving and hate walking, so maybe in their eyes Atlanta is perfect just as it is.
Comparisons are all relative, and don't be mistaken and lazily uninformed, and you won't be disappointed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alco89
If you're looking for a European-like city in America (ESPECIALLY in the South), you're going to be REAL disappointed 90% of the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brown_dog_us
The OP posted looking for advice on places to visit and the first reply asked them to report back, so it's not unsolicited Atlanta bashing.
OP, Atlanta is a great place and a lot of people love it, but it sounds like it isn't what you are looking for. I think you might like a dense NE city or a W coast city like Seattle or Portland. Good Luck!
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57
I can't disagree entirely with the OP's assessment.
No, we are not some city like Copenhagen or Sydney or San Francisco. Nor do we aspire to be. The ATL is a place where folks come to work, raise their family and find a little elbow room at a reasonable cost. That's how we roll and it is not all bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57
If someone's preference is for cities built around a single core, then by all means they should opt for one of the many fine cities constructed on that model.
However, there are many forms of urban settlement. Here in the ATL we have chosen a multi-nodal approach that offers a number of activity centers but still provides adequate elbow room for the vast majority of residents.
That has proven sufficient to attract nearly 6 million people. Not too bad, I'd say.
^ Notice the theme, generally, that ATL isn’t like dense northeast cities or west coast cities? And all the other ways ATL was described. It’s not a bad thing. As the local ATL posters. Obviously over 6 million people prefer it
Last edited by Charlotte485; 10-24-2018 at 08:04 PM..
Random pictures of a holiday event (Christmas tree lighting?) and a rendering of an H&M... I don’t care about a little block or a development. Because those pictures could be anywhere. Zoom out a bit. A little big bigger picture...
These pictures remind me of how stark the difference between urban centers like DC versus ATL & other sunbelt cities are.
I agree with these local Atlantans:
^ Notice the theme, generally, that ATL isn’t like dense northeast cities or west coast cities? And all the other ways ATL was described. It’s not a bad thing. As the local ATL posters. Obviously over 6 million people prefer it
This is how I know you dont know what you are talking about.You should have recognized that Atlantic Station in the pictures is a city within itself with tons of street level shops,restaurants,fitness center.movie theater with residential and high rise offices mixed together,
Your assertion is that ATL is more like Charlotte.Again that was not what I disagree with you about.
First of all you posted a picture of areas that you said were like those in Atlanta.That area of Atlantic Station proved my point
The difference is those shops in Atlantic Station are street level such as H and M which is undergoing a major remodel as we speak.
Atlantic Station in Midtown'
There is a Taget,Gap,Bannana Republic,West Elm,Publix,H&M,LA Fitness,Regal Cinemas etc jsut like what you posted but the layout is FAR different as Atlantic Station has street level access.
The green lower density area behind the high rises is Georgia Tech
Didn't say that. I used the term MOST southern sprawling sunbelt cities share more commonalities with each other than other cities in the US. And to an extent, there are cultural correlations with Charlotte/Atlanta due to geographic proximity. I too agree, there are areas in both cities that have elements of the traditional more urban northern cities. No matter how you slice it though, Atlanta is a very big southern version of most mid-size sunbelt cities. Even old Charlotte had a decent vintage "urban" footprint prior to urban renewal. By no means did it compare to old Atlanta or the other cities you mentioned.
Most cities on the East Coast have similarities. Midsized cities from New Orleans minus the French Quarter,Birmingham, or large cities like Atlanta to even cities like NYC ,Baltimore ,Boston etc have similarities across the Eastern Seaboard as they were built during a period where all cities were built in the same vein.The difference is that many cities in the South boomed much later so the newer parts distinguish themselves further from the others.
So while I agree Charlotte and Atlanta are more similar than other cities,I take issue with the fact that Charlotte lacks some design cues that are more evident in Atlanta as well as in larger cities.
Atlanta has always been more urban than Charlotte,Its has and had a bustling downtown as late in my life time unlike Charlotte
Atlanta has and is densifying at a rate in which Charlotte is not.As evidenced in the style of development happening such as whats going on in Underground.
Remember Underground used to have stores and shops like Gap,Victoria Secret etc as late as the early 2000s
A Macys was downtown until 2003 and a Kroger Grocery store was there until 2005 so we are only talking 13 years ago. When was the last time a grocery store was at street level in Charlotte?
These are street level retail businesses that are easily accessible to pedestrians.
Other areas like Fairlie Popular just dont exist in Charlotte.
A city park like Woodruff Park where thousands of office workers and students congregate.
GSU/Woodruff Park functions as NYU in Manhattan near Washington Square.
I'm not suggesting ATL is like NYC but in some aspects it is closer than anything that is offered in Charlotte
All these places I mentioned are just lacking tenants and foot traffic.Residential is being developed already.That is why those store closed in the first place.They relied on tourist dollars and not residents.
Charlotte is 600sq miles versus Atlanta 138sq miles.
Even Midtown is more dense than Downtown Charlotte.
Take a place like Atlantic Station.Sure its not a typical downtown but you can get to it on foot as its right next door to GA Tech which is another point.
Where in Charlotte is there a major university such as how Tech is between Downtown and Midtown?
Philly,NYC,DC,etc all have major universities adjacent or included in their downtowns
Universities add another dimension of life on the streets that add to the urbanity
Its not just a size thing.
What I have said is that Atlanta is a bigger Charlotte but Atlanta has more development that Charlotte lacks. While there are huge similarities,there is much about Atlanta that is quite different.
Oh there's no question; urban renewal in Charlotte was definitely more extreme. That's why Midtown Atlanta, which is a newer commercial district, compares better to Uptown Charlotte architecturally than downtown Atlanta.
Which is exactly my point.Charlotte doesnt have a Downtown like Atlanta which is more reminiscent of a northeastern city .
Midtown might as well be Charlotte but even then it has elements that Charlotte doesnt have like Atlantic Station
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