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Well, I was living in Charleston during the time the South Side Bridge was closed for renovations. It was not a pleasant time to try to drive around the city. It was pretty rough on the traffic patterns when the C&O ramp was closed too. The South Side Bridge is more important to the city than you realize. Over the years, there have been proposals to build bridges at other locations. (If I remember correctly, one was proposed back in the 60s or 70s that would split the difference between the South Side Bridge and the Kanawha City Bridge. That would have put it crossing from Ruffner Avenue to Porter Road.) Funding major work on the bridge is a big problem. It isn't on a state of federal highway, so it is completely up to the city. How much do you want your local taxes to be raised to pay for a new bridge?
(Heck, I'm so old that I can remember when they opened up Dickinson Street so you could drive straight onto the bridge.)
BTW, when the Dunbar Toll Bridge Commission operated the bridge down there, it was probably the best maintained bridge in several counties. As soon as the weather broke in the spring, they asphalt patches were replaced with concrete. As soon as the tolls came off and the bridge was turned over to the state, it started going downhill. (I've still got some toll tickets somewhere. I wonder if they're worth anything.)
Well, I was living in Charleston during the time the South Side Bridge was closed for renovations. It was not a pleasant time to try to drive around the city. It was pretty rough on the traffic patterns when the C&O ramp was closed too. The South Side Bridge is more important to the city than you realize. Over the years, there have been proposals to build bridges at other locations. (If I remember correctly, one was proposed back in the 60s or 70s that would split the difference between the South Side Bridge and the Kanawha City Bridge. That would have put it crossing from Ruffner Avenue to Porter Road.) Funding major work on the bridge is a big problem. It isn't on a state of federal highway, so it is completely up to the city. How much do you want your local taxes to be raised to pay for a new bridge?
(Heck, I'm so old that I can remember when they opened up Dickinson Street so you could drive straight onto the bridge.)
BTW, when the Dunbar Toll Bridge Commission operated the bridge down there, it was probably the best maintained bridge in several counties. As soon as the weather broke in the spring, they asphalt patches were replaced with concrete. As soon as the tolls came off and the bridge was turned over to the state, it started going downhill. (I've still got some toll tickets somewhere. I wonder if they're worth anything.)
I do agree that the Dunbar Bridge used to be one of the best, but it diametric from that rating these days. I think it is so bad in the latest report that I will no longer take that bridge, not even in an emergency.
I recall the time frame you speak of about the double whammy of the South Side Bridge AND the C&O ramp closure. While the bridge closure certainly had an impact, the majority of the issues (imo) was the closure of the ramp.
Again I agree this is about taxes from the city and right now the city is hoping that the bridge does not kill some one. Trust me, if any is hurt by a bridge that has a partial or full collapse and the truth becomes general knowledge that all the city did was paint and pave when the commission in 1990 recommended replacement than the city is going to be out a lot more money and get a black eye.
That's a bit of a bummer. Of course, this just opens the lot back up to other potential developments. With Class A office vacancy still relatively high, I couldn't imagine someone taking a chance and putting an office building there. And with a the possibility of two new hotels downtown (one beside CC/other across from Power Park), I doubt a hotel company will take a gamble. The sad thing is, the property is a great location. I bet Sheetz will make an offer
That's a bit of a bummer. Of course, this just opens the lot back up to other potential developments. With Class A office vacancy still relatively high, I couldn't imagine someone taking a chance and putting an office building there. And with a the possibility of two new hotels downtown (one beside CC/other across from Power Park), I doubt a hotel company will take a gamble. The sad thing is, the property is a great location. I bet Sheetz will make an offer
I have come to believe that the people making these potential plans either do not visit these sites and see them for what they are or they rely solely on local officials that are less than precise over the dynamics of the location.
Look, Quarrier Street was a Go To address as recently as the early 1980's, but the opening of Town Center killed the high fashion outlets there. Quarrier Street is just another downtown street with nothing worth going to for the last 30+ years. It is not a great site or location for anything but office buildings and presently, we do not need those.
Honestly, I wonder how out of touch our planners and leaders must be I would not call any of us on this forum an expert in city planning but we all love the city, use the city and think about more than developing some site in a vacuum. In that frame of reference, "we" are the experts. They should be asking us as we seem to guess correctly and predict outcomes with an alarmingly high success rate.
This entire block should be a new Super Block project as the Town Center was in the 1970's. While some would argue that there are three larger buildings of note:
1) The 4-floor WV Tax Compliance building at the corner of Lee & Dickinson
2) The 5-floor Legal Aid of WV building at the corner of Dickinson and Quarrier
3) The 4-floor building housing various tenants at the corner of Quarrier and Leon Sullivan
I do not think any of these buildings are of any real worth when so much unoccupied class B space exists in the city already and these tenants have the ability to relocate without disruption of their operations. The only establishment on this block of nostalgic note is the Quarrier Diner and lets face it, like Quarrier Street, its best days are long since gone.
Bulldoze it all.
Once you clear the parcel a developer will see this as the urban heart of the city. We have postulated on this forum before what would work well here and all of us have pitched in good ideas. But the current patchwork approach is not going to work no matter how many new developers come along and take a peak at this site.
What if one was to persuade United Bank to construct a new national headquarters building on the site? Maybe 30 or so stories. The city's signature office tower. They are exploding with growth, acquisitions and earnings right now. They could try and bring Brickstreeet with them so as to require even less space in the building needed to find tenants for. That would add hundreds of workers to that part of town and would revitalize that whole end of town and Quarrier Street. What about their current building? Easy solution.......sell the first floor lobby, teller windows, drive thru etc to City National Bank which would bring another of Charleston's banks into the CBD. City National could also lease a few of the lower floors above the lobby for their HQ and offices. They could put their logo where the United logo is. Then United should convert the remaining 10-12 floors into luxury condos. Maybe with a separate sky lobby separate from the bank's lobby. There is already ample parking onsite with the current United garage. They could probably do 6 condos on each floor. Residents would be only steps away from banking, the arena and convention center, restaurants, the CTC and other downtown venues. This would also help the office vacancy in downtown by forcing the remaining tenants in the United Center to vacate into other space downtown helping the other buildings. Its a win win for everyone concerned.
What if one was to persuade United Bank to construct a new national headquarters building on the site? Maybe 30 or so stories. The city's signature office tower. They are exploding with growth, acquisitions and earnings right now. They could try and bring Brickstreeet with them so as to require even less space in the building needed to find tenants for. That would add hundreds of workers to that part of town and would revitalize that whole end of town and Quarrier Street. What about their current building? Easy solution.......sell the first floor lobby, teller windows, drive thru etc to City National Bank which would bring another of Charleston's banks into the CBD. City National could also lease a few of the lower floors above the lobby for their HQ and offices. They could put their logo where the United logo is. Then United should convert the remaining 10-12 floors into luxury condos. Maybe with a separate sky lobby separate from the bank's lobby. There is already ample parking onsite with the current United garage. They could probably do 6 condos on each floor. Residents would be only steps away from banking, the arena and convention center, restaurants, the CTC and other downtown venues. This would also help the office vacancy in downtown by forcing the remaining tenants in the United Center to vacate into other space downtown helping the other buildings. Its a win win for everyone concerned.
CRWMSPPGH, I think this is a great idea. Mixed use is definitely the way to go but I would raise awareness to a few aspects to consider:
Office buildings in Charleston that command the better rates are closer to the Courthouse and for condos to really work downtown and change the evening and weekend dynamics, those residents need amenities and at this time, there are few of any grade to patronize. The list of needed amenities is rather basic but most of it is missing downtown.
My philosophy is not to build the set pieces, but rather the infrastructure and amenities and let developers come into that environment and use their money to build what the market can support. This is taking place at the Civic Center. The city is dumping 200 million+ into the facility and already we are seeing external developers coming in to take advantage of this new energy. I think that is the best plan for the city to follow.
The problem is that part of this super block is under State ownership and administration. It has always seemed to me that the State and the City of Charleston have a less than business relationship. I have wondered if this is a dislike towards Mayor Jones or some other intangible, but whatever it is, the State and the City are often across the table on these things.
When they aren't, Kanawha County Commission thinks it should call the shots in the city and for my opinion, it has done so much harm to this county in the last 30 years that it should be eliminated and merged into a metro government. Kanawha County has gone from 231,414 people in 1980 to an estimated 188,332 people. That is a loss of 43,082 or 18.6% and that falls totally on the desk of the Commissioners, Carper, Shores and Hardy. The city has lost only a few thousand and has thus only minimally affected that county drop.
I saw the beams going up the other day and thought that the new addition is going to be rather large.
I also hope the city renovates/beautifies Clendenin Street once this project is completed. New and improved sidewalks, decorative brick pedestrian crossings, green spaces, trees, etc. It is needed in downtown and especially in that area.
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