High speed rail for california? One group thinks so! (San Francisco: to rent, house)

[EscapeCalifornia]

Originally Posted by killer2021

I'll be surprised if that happens. There is already a massive exodus of the affluent leaving the state. Those people are needed to spend money into the economy. The only reason the population of this state is rising is due to immigration. Rich leaving, poor replacing.

Also factor in the rising cost of oil, food, housing etc. I'll be surprised if we hit 50 million.

Never underestimate the fertility of illiterate peasants, especially when the government's paying for food stamps and WIC. We WILL hit 50M people soon, no matter how many people leave.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by cobmw

State broke. Where will money come from for this? Tax the rich? There's not enough of them to pay for all the lib's programs plus this sort of thing. Let private companies do this if it's really worth doing at all.

If there is so much money laying around to fund this (or rich people to steal it from) how about using some of it to expand the freeways. Can you imagine how much productivity is lost with workers and commercial goods stuck in traffic every day.

Imagine having ALTERNATIVES to congested roadways instead of constantly trying to pour billions to expand a freeway that will become just as congested as it was before. No place on earth has solved congestion by expanding freeways. LA is a great example of that failure in thinking.

[EscapeCalifornia]

Originally Posted by sav858

Imagine having ALTERNATIVES to congested roadways instead of constantly trying to pour billions to expand a freeway that will become just as congested as it was before. No place on earth has solved congestion by expanding freeways. LA is a great example of that failure in thinking.

The biggest failure in LA's freeway system is that its 2008 with 1978 capacity.

[missionhome]

Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia

The biggest failure in LA's freeway system is that its 2008 with 1978 capacity.

None the less, how big do we expect freeways to get? LA's too dense a city to be reliant on freeways. Look at South Orange County for example. The El Toro Y was a notorious interchange and was horrible in the 90's. When they expanded it to 26 lanes it became the widest portion of freeway in the United States. Yes, 26 lanes and still remains the widest! Still though, it has not solved traffic and at rush hour it moves around 20 mph.

Now this is South OC with a population of around 500,000. Now imagine how wide Los Angeles freeways would need to get for there to be no traffic. There are 10 million people in LA County. If 26 lanes isn't good enough for undense OC, what will LA need? 30 lanes, 40 lanes, 45 lanes, etc....???? How wide of a freeway is good enough for traffic to move smoothly? Adding a lane to a freeway makes traffic move just slightly faster. Say from an average of 10 mph to 12 mph. How many lanes are needed to get to a good speed?

In my opinion, this train will be good for California. This may not be the right time, but eventually the USA will need to stop having a Third World public transportation system. This would be the flagship public transport of the USA and I know I would be first in line to use it if tickets are priced right. Flying is annoying and you spend 2 hours just waiting in security lines anyhow. For a quick flight to San Francisco it becomes too much stress to go through airports. On the other hand, the drive through the Central Valley is one of the ugliest and most boring drives on planet earthm, the traffic is bad, and I hate it. If I could just sit and read a book in comfort and get there is two and half hours I would be totally happy.

[Huckleberry3911948]

it will take an enormous push to get people out of the car. for 1 thing our laws support non involvement with poor people, who are the primary users of public transportation.
coupled with deteriorating personal liberties (draconian punishment for self defense) and enormous support of rights of the poor(self defense by the rich is seen as a hate crime against the poor), this creates a volatile atmosphere in the streets.
very much like the france of today. small cars are purchased there not only for mobility but equally for security and avoidance of ghetto events, aka violence.

[EscapeCalifornia]

Originally Posted by missionhome

Flying is annoying and you spend 2 hours just waiting in security lines anyhow. For a quick flight to San Francisco it becomes too much stress to go through airports. On the other hand, the drive through the Central Valley is one of the ugliest and most boring drives on planet earthm, the traffic is bad, and I hate it. If I could just sit and read a book in comfort and get there is two and half hours I would be totally happy.

When's the last time you spent 2 hours in the security line at John Wayne? Unless you're going out on a 7am flight during the week, the line is usually 10 minutes at most. And what makes you think taking the train will be any more convenient than flying? If they have airport style security, it'll be the same. If they don't, it'll be a huge terrorism target. Then when you get to your destination, you'll still have to figure out how to get around on the ground, same as flying.

[missionhome]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948

it will take an enormous push to get people out of the car. for 1 thing our laws support non involvement with poor people, the primary users of public transportation.
coupled with deteriorating personal liberties (draconian punishment for self defense) and enormous support of rights of the poor, this creates a volatile atmosphere in the streets.
very much like the france of today. small cars are purchased there not only for mobility but equally for security and avoidance of ghetto events, aka violence.

The high speed train would not be a "ghetto" train though (I don't think public transportation is for only poor people, there are more business professionals on it than you probably realize). This is the time of thing we could have. The fact is, this is something developed nations have and something we are missing out on. This is an improvement to society and the modern way to do things.

[elousv]

Originally Posted by killer2021

You should see the safety records of high speed trains that are in operating in places like japan and Europe. They have super high safety ratings. You are more likely to die in a car than a high speed train.

They have good safety ratings for nucular reactors too, why don't we have a few dozen of those?

[elousv]

Originally Posted by sav858

that situation would never even be possible with high speed rail b/c it would all be double tracked and no trains would ever be heading towards each other on the same track. No other trains, like freight trains, would even be allowed to use the high speed rail tracks. So your whole argument is completely pointless and impossible as well. High speed rail has a VERY SAFE track record across the world.

So I guess we won't have any drunk illegals driving down the wrong side of the track or others committing suicide by parking on the tracks. Not to mention legislators on the take, no quality assurance since we will have the lowest bidder which means average IQ of 60 building your high speed train complete with poor metal from China and magnets put in backwards. Then who is going to ride the damn things? Spend hundreds of billions to move a few low life scum around, absolutely moronic.

[missionhome]

Originally Posted by elousv

Spend hundreds of billions to move a few low life scum around, absolutely moronic.

Why do you think only low lifes would be on these trains? These are NOT cheap trains. The tickets could cost as much as $200 roundtrip. High speed trains are like airplanes. Do you consider everyone on an airplane to be a low life? I think people are mistaking a high speed rail for your average subway. There are even first class cars with meals on these types of trains.

With this type of mentality, maybe the train would never work. People here thinking a high speed train is for the poor, ohhhhh how Europeans would laugh at us while they cruise between Paris and London at 200mph in large leather chairs with their laptops out watching movies and we try to go down Interstate 5 at 75 mph ducking between fruit trucks, smelling cows, and starring at 200+ miles of tomato fields.