Mountain lion kills California man in state’s first fatal attack in 20 years (new home, food)
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With all due respect, you're a 75-year-old. You're not 20. You don't have the strength or endurance to fight off a wild animal with a knife. I'm 62 and I know I don't. Not even close. Endurance is the first thing that goes.
If anyone can benefit from a gun, it's seniors.
Forget about the knife fantasy. The only chance you're going to have is with a gun.
The guy in the second video I posted shot the cougar in the face with a Glock and it was DRT. Try that with a knife. In most situations, the gun provides superior penetration.
Well, even at 20...the kids in this story were around 20 and a gun would have saved them from death/serious injury. It's a potentially useful insurance policy for anyone.
Some people are just very opposed to guns, however, and will try to spin things whichever way they need to argue away *any* need for them at all.
For me, I know I would hesitate too long to use a gun in most situations. Bear spray, I wouldn’t have that fear of killing someone or something holding me back.
Bear spray, personal alarm, gun. Gun is last resort.
Most situations personal alarm or bear spray would solve without killing and possibly getting into legal trouble. When you take classes for CCW you are told you WILL be charged if you shoot someone and need to prove you feared for your life, it’s got to be believed and legitimate.
The one issue with bear spray is expiration or nullification due to heat/cold and it doesn’t work. Also deploying too late. That’s why you have all options.
What I have found interesting is the men who immediately notice you are carrying bear spray. I don’t even notice other people carrying it, hmmmm. I do notice men carrying guns…
Also, mountain lions will attack dogs, they will hunt them. A dog doesn’t necessarily scare them. The tracking hounds are in a pack making noise. Watch your pets when your out there.
If you don't have a firearm, you make do. And a spear is better than a knife.
Depends on the situation … I am a firearm owner (for over 65 years, continuously). I have used them in military and as a hunter … and even kept them (with CCW) as a personal protection option (although I have almost never carried outside of service years). If a person is confronted at sufficient distance and time, and has a firearm, yep, I’d use it if the animal presented actual intent against me. First choice.
And certainly, even a spear is better than a hunting knife under similar circumstances if no firearm is handy.
But, if a 100+ lb cougar drops on you in ambush, has a hold of you with fangs and claws around your head, neck and torso from behind - as they most typically attack - no one, no matter how much ‘training, muzzle awareness, trigger-discipline, and youth and personal strength, is at all likely to be able to get off anything more than a wild shot if any shot at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattja
I hope other people don't listen to this very bad advice.
I didn’t “advise” anyone to do anything. Any more than you “advise” people to carry a spear when hiking. I wrote that my personal years of hiking have always been with [sizable and very athletic] hunting dogs (which is likely why I have never seen anything but LOTS of cougar scat and never an animal) … and I often have a good knife with (for a variety of reasons), that I would best try to stab and slash with if surprised. That said, I am sure the only cougar that might attack me when my dog(s) are with would be a rabid one, god forbid.
You and another poster or two jumped to paraphrase my statement to fit your own agenda and mistaken assumptions ( remember your “suspect [ I ] don’t get out much?”).
I disagree with your belief in your ability to get off any kind of controlled shot with a firearm, if any shot at all, while under the actual weight of attack. I know I couldn’t and don’t think for one second that even Conan McGregor mixed martial arts fighting champion in peak condition in his mid-30s could get off a shot or wrestle a sizable cougar that had his head in its jaws.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattja
You are under the mistaken assumption that all cougar attacks are by ambush. That is their preferred method, for sure, but I posted two recent videos that prove it's just not true.
I’m not under any mistaken assumption. Most cougar attacks, by far, are blind ambush. And a couple youtubes don’t prove otherwise. As I said, if you see one coming with intent at any workable distance, and you have a gun … absolutely …. Shoot ‘em.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattja
With all due respect, you're a 75-year-old. You're not 20. You don't have the strength or endurance to fight off a wild animal with a knife. I'm 62 and I know I don't. Not even close. Endurance is the first thing that goes.
If anyone can benefit from a gun, it's seniors.
Forget about the knife fantasy. The only chance you're going to have is with a gun.
The guy in the second video I posted shot the cougar in the face with a Glock and it was DRT. Try that with a knife. In most situations, the gun provides superior penetration.
Read my comment above. And absorb carefully what I’ve said just now, and previously.
Primates, which is what we are, do not have the natural tools to fight big predator mammals (well, maybe gorillas). Nor the speed to get away. What we do, however often failing, is flail wildly with arms and hands when some beast latches on to us. If you’re flailing with a blade in your grip, you stand some chance of the predator releasing you … especially if your dog is attached to the predator as well with its teeth sunk in deep.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas Vincit
Well, even at 20...the kids in this story were around 20 and a gun would have saved them from death/serious injury. It's a potentially useful insurance policy for anyone.
Some people are just very opposed to guns, however, and will try to spin things whichever way they need to argue away *any* need for them at all.
Those kids in this incident were victims of a truly unusual and strange attack. One in a million.
As for your inference that I am “opposed to guns” and “trying to spin’? Go back and read my comments again.
…
Also, mountain lions will attack dogs, they will hunt them. A dog doesn’t necessarily scare them. The tracking hounds are in a pack making noise. Watch your pets when your out there.
Bear spray is good stuff
Cougars will snatch easy little dogs, and even bigger lumbering dogs. Rare day when a cougar is so desperate it will go after any dog(s) that are clearly big hunting or sheparding types. They instinctively read athleticism of their prey as they instinctively understand they can’t risk injury even if they are ultimately superior.
With all due respect, you're a 75-year-old. You're not 20. You don't have the strength or endurance to fight off a wild animal with a knife. I'm 62 and I know I don't. Not even close. Endurance is the first thing that goes.
If anyone can benefit from a gun, it's seniors.
Forget about the knife fantasy. The only chance you're going to have is with a gun.
The guy in the second video I posted shot the cougar in the face with a Glock and it was DRT. Try that with a knife. In most situations, the gun provides superior penetration.
Depends on the situation … I am a firearm owner (for over 65 years, continuously). I have used them in military and as a hunter … and even kept them (with CCW) as a personal protection option (although I have almost never carried outside of service years). If a person is confronted at sufficient distance and time, and has a firearm, yep, I’d use it if the animal presented actual intent against me. First choice.
And certainly, even a spear is better than a hunting knife under similar circumstances if no firearm is handy.
But, if a 100+ lb cougar drops on you in ambush, has a hold of you with fangs and claws around your head, neck and torso from behind - as they most typically attack - no one, no matter how much ‘training, muzzle awareness, trigger-discipline, and youth and personal strength, is at all likely to be able to get off anything more than a wild shot if any shot at all.
I didn’t “advise” anyone to do anything. Any more than you “advise” people to carry a spear when hiking. I wrote that my personal years of hiking have always been with [sizable and very athletic] hunting dogs (which is likely why I have never seen anything but LOTS of cougar scat and never an animal) … and I often have a good knife with (for a variety of reasons), that I would best try to stab and slash with if surprised. That said, I am sure the only cougar that might attack me when my dog(s) are with would be a rabid one, god forbid.
You and another poster or two jumped to paraphrase my statement to fit your own agenda and mistaken assumptions ( remember your “suspect [ I ] don’t get out much?”).
I disagree with your belief in your ability to get off any kind of controlled shot with a firearm, if any shot at all, while under the actual weight of attack. I know I couldn’t and don’t think for one second that even Conan McGregor mixed martial arts fighting champion in peak condition in his mid-30s could get off a shot or wrestle a sizable cougar that had his head in its jaws.
I’m not under any mistaken assumption. Most cougar attacks, by far, are blind ambush. And a couple youtubes don’t prove otherwise. As I said, if you see one coming with intent at any workable distance, and you have a gun … absolutely …. Shoot ‘em.
Read my comment above. And absorb carefully what I’ve said just now, and previously.
Primates, which is what we are, do not have the natural tools to fight big predator mammals (well, maybe gorillas). Nor the speed to get away. What we do, however often failing, is flail wildly with arms and hands when some beast latches on to us. If you’re flailing with a blade in your grip, you stand some chance of the predator releasing you … especially if your dog is attached to the predator as well with its teeth sunk in deep.
Those kids in this incident were victims of a truly unusual and strange attack. One in a million.
As for your inference that I am “opposed to guns” and “trying to spin’? Go back and read my comments again.
A self-proclaimed “combat veteran” and “firearm instructor” 75 year-old like yourself accidentally shoot yourself during the struggle with a mountain lion because you have no idea where your muzzle is pointing.
Yet, you have enough strength, leverage, and endurance to fight off a mountain lion with a knife. Impressive
Sure. Everyone can be their own hero on the Internet
Well, even at 20...the kids in this story were around 20 and a gun would have saved them from death/serious injury. It's a potentially useful insurance policy for anyone.
Some people are just very opposed to guns, however, and will try to spin things whichever way they need to argue away *any* need for them at all.
I agree, I was just trying to make a point. Even if those kids had a knife with a 10" blade, they would be in a bad situation.
It's true. Some people here are so anti-gun they oppose any use of firearms even if the firearm could save their own life. Well, at least they say that. I think many just don't want other people saving their life with a firearm.
A self-proclaimed “combat veteran” and “firearm instructor” 75 year-old like yourself accidentally shoot yourself during the struggle with a mountain lion because you have no idea where your muzzle is pointing.
Yet, you have enough strength, leverage, and endurance to fight off a mountain lion with a knife. Impressive
Sure. Everyone can be their own hero on the Internet
Interesting. Yes, everyone can be a 15 year cop on the internet too. (But, I think you were / are; gun fetish and a passive-aggressive baiting conversation style are not uncommon in the profession.)
I’ve known more than a few LEOs. Best friend growing up; a close cousin; a hockey buddy back in the day; another friend worked up from patrol to chief of a major N. American city. Through them I knew others, some great guys and some s___ heads. And they all - good and s___heads alike - shared one common trait: they were very observant; good attention to detail. It’s part of the job. Little doubt you share that trait.
Thus I know that you know full well that your paraphrasing above of what I posted in this thread is, well, b.s.
You remember the good old days before bodycams spoiled a lot of fun, right? Well, forum posts are like bodycams:
I never wrote I was a “firearms instructor”
Never wrote I was a hero of any kind
Never said I could fight off a mountain lion with a knife, either. In fact, you just quoted me saying the opposite.
But you know that, as I said. My actual words are preserved if anyone cares to review.
And I still don’t share your belief that you, or any human, can fight off a 100+lb cougar to where you can get off an accurate shot with your sidearm, if any shot at all, once that animal has you in its grip. Primates use their arms and hands wildly when attacked. With a blade, you might get lucky enough with wild, blind stabbing to gain release. No precision aim or ‘trigger discipline’ required. Saying so isn’t recommending that a knife is a preventative weapon of choice. That’s just you paraphrasing passive-aggressively. My dogs are my primary weapon of choice. Knife is a multipurpose tool, carried for a variety of uses, that just might could help pull out a miracle.
Depends on the situation … I am a firearm owner (for over 65 years, continuously). I have used them in military and as a hunter … and even kept them (with CCW) as a personal protection option (although I have almost never carried outside of service years). If a person is confronted at sufficient distance and time, and has a firearm, yep, I’d use it if the animal presented actual intent against me. First choice.
And certainly, even a spear is better than a hunting knife under similar circumstances if no firearm is handy.
But, if a 100+ lb cougar drops on you in ambush, has a hold of you with fangs and claws around your head, neck and torso from behind - as they most typically attack - no one, no matter how much ‘training, muzzle awareness, trigger-discipline, and youth and personal strength, is at all likely to be able to get off anything more than a wild shot if any shot at all.
Worst case scenario, I agree. But we're seeing more situations like the following as of late.
I didn’t “advise” anyone to do anything. Any more than you “advise” people to carry a spear when hiking. I wrote that my personal years of hiking have always been with [sizable and very athletic] hunting dogs (which is likely why I have never seen anything but LOTS of cougar scat and never an animal) … and I often have a good knife with (for a variety of reasons), that I would best try to stab and slash with if surprised. That said, I am sure the only cougar that might attack me when my dog(s) are with would be a rabid one, god forbid.
You and another poster or two jumped to paraphrase my statement to fit your own agenda and mistaken assumptions ( remember your “suspect [ I ] don’t get out much?”).
I disagree with your belief in your ability to get off any kind of controlled shot with a firearm, if any shot at all, while under the actual weight of attack. I know I couldn’t and don’t think for one second that even Conan McGregor mixed martial arts fighting champion in peak condition in his mid-30s could get off a shot or wrestle a sizable cougar that had his head in its jaws.
I’m not under any mistaken assumption. Most cougar attacks, by far, are blind ambush. And a couple youtubes don’t prove otherwise. As I said, if you see one coming with intent at any workable distance, and you have a gun … absolutely …. Shoot ‘em.
Read my comment above. And absorb carefully what I’ve said just now, and previously.
Primates, which is what we are, do not have the natural tools to fight big predator mammals (well, maybe gorillas). Nor the speed to get away. What we do, however often failing, is flail wildly with arms and hands when some beast latches on to us. If you’re flailing with a blade in your grip, you stand some chance of the predator releasing you … especially if your dog is attached to the predator as well with its teeth sunk in deep.
Those kids in this incident were victims of a truly unusual and strange attack. One in a million.
As for your inference that I am “opposed to guns” and “trying to spin’? Go back and read my comments again.
Okay, fair enough.
I will say I think you are wrong about the recent attacks. Frontal attacks and stalkings are increasing. It's not just a couple of youtube videos.
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(But, I think you were / are; gun fetish and a passive-aggressive baiting conversation style are not uncommon in the profession.) 
