Pacific Gas and Electric customers bristle at rate hikes (Los Angeles: condo, how much)

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by AnythingOutdoors

From the Bay Area News Group: “They need to be on the hook for it”: PG&E customers bristle at rate hikes to fund maintenance

The money to pay for fire liability and upgrades has to come from somewhere. IMO execs and shareholders should be first in line, not ratepayers.

The following is indeed shocking:



This has to be an error, right? $338 for a one-bedroom apartment in a climate that doesn't really get below freezing is appalling. For comparison our January electric + gas bill here in Boise was $230 for our 3200 sq ft house. We leave the thermostat at 70F and temperatures got down to near 0F for a few days.

So is this an outlier, or are others seeing something similar?

That is not workable. It simply isn't a reasonable or doable plan. PG&E needs to start a Go Fund Me page or something, if it needs operating/maintenance money. Maybe all the retired execs who raked in high pay and high benefits while neglecting maintenance and improvements to the system could have their retirement benefits cut and their utility bills raised to help pay for the current mess.

[mgforshort]

We lost power in Paradise Sunday evening and the power came back Monday after 9 AM. There was a storm, but we had worse before. PG&E rates started to rise after 2021 about the same time when they began digging for the underground utilities. The costs are in the billions and obviously we are paying for it.

We are underground now, but it didn't help much this Sunday. We have 3 generators, most people got one, so I'm wondering if all that tearing up our roads was worth it. Some roads were torn up more than 3-4 times. Tear it up, repave, then do it again six weeks later. Zero planning brings rotten fruits.

Our bills, NG and electric: January 2021 $ 333; Jan. 2022 $ 433; Jan. 2023 $ 481. Old 2 bedroom, 2 bath house 1,700 sq feet.

I realize that the main reason for going underground is fire prevention, but I think removing or trimming overgrown trees next to power lines would be a much quicker and cheaper solution.

[self-made]

Newsom and California State Regulators have been very busy issuing PG&E "Safety Certificates," limiting liability, i.e., presumption it "acted reasonably," to PG&E and shareholders and shifting costs of damages to customers. Skyrocketing bills. Shocking, isn't it? Links provided to articles and letter for those interested in reading the about the shady scheme.


2021

Source: ABC10, Sacramento, CA (April 15, 2021)
https://www.abc10.com/article/news/l...5-ff4812eb433b

Headline: ‘License to burn?’ | California government approves PG&E safety certificate

Despite 91 felonies and two pending criminal investigations of wildfires blamed on PG&E, state regulators officially called it "safe." The reason involves money.

SACRAMENTO, Calif — The five voting members of California’s Public Utilities Commission effectively certified PG&E as an officially “safe” utility Thursday, under a 2019 law signed by Gov. Gavin Newsom.

The CPUC granted the electric monopoly a 2021 state safety certificate even though PG&E was charged this month with 33 crimes in Sonoma County for sparking the 2019 Kincade Fire and is under investigation for possible murder charges in Shasta County because of the 2020 Zogg Fire, which killed four people.

Under the terms of AB 1054, the state law that bailed PG&E out of bankruptcy, utilities pre-certified as “safe” are not required to prove they acted reasonably to charge customers for the cost of the damage caused by the flames. (Emphasis added.)

The safety certificate also gives PG&E the ability to tap into a multibillion-dollar state wildfire fund, paid for by customers, to help pay damages to fire victims-- and perhaps most importantly, it caps the amount of fire damage that PG&E shareholders would be on the hook for paying back to the fund. (Emphasis added.)


2022

Source: ABC10, Sacramento, CA (February 1, 2022)
https://www.abc10.com/article/news/l...6-5632e7a25015

Headline: PG&E certified 'safe' again by Newsom admin, victims lose value in stock sale

Amid criminal investigations and shortages paying victims of past PG&E wildfires, Gov. Gavin Newsom’s administration certified PG&E as a safe power company again.

The certificate grants PG&E a presumption that it acted reasonably if its power lines spark a fire, which means that the cost of damage can be billed to customers instead of shareholders. (Emphasis added.)

The certificate also grants PG&E access to a multibillion dollar wildfire insurance fund, half of which was paid for by power customers statewide. The fund can be tapped to pay damages directly, avoiding a liability on PG&E's books.


2023/2024

Oh look, on December 1, 2023, PG&E requested the State of California issue PG&E another Safety Certificate. On January 22, 2024, the State of California did just that.

Source: Letter from California Office of Energy Infrastructure Safety to PGE
file:///C:/Users/me/Desktop/TN13587_20240122T140814_Issuance_of_Pacific_Gas_an d_Electric_Safety_Certification.pdf

[mgforshort]

Our latest bill, NG and electric, is $ 495. Same month in 2018, before the fire, was $ 218. That is a 127% increase or 21% increase per year. I was against the underground utilities and this was only one reason. I can see within my lifetime, which isn't long, bills close to $ 1,000 for a small 2 bedroom house like ours. We live in Paradise, CA, at 1600 feet elevation, and our climate isn't harsh compared to Europe or Montana.

Once EV vehicles become the majority and the gas tax is down, there could be a major tax increase on electricity. It doesn't matter if I use a bicycle or ride a donkey, if we want light in the house we must pay the bill.

[AnythingOutdoors]

Originally Posted by mgforshort

Once EV vehicles become the majority and the gas tax is down, there could be a major tax increase on electricity. It doesn't matter if I use a bicycle or ride a donkey, if we want light in the house we must pay the bill.

Well, you could go off-grid with solar and batteries. At some point the total-cost-of-ownership lines cross as solar panels and batteries improve and become cheaper, while PG&E bills continue to increase.

[JGC97]

I know my rates have gone up but my electricity is provided through my city and gas is the only thing I receive from PG&E. I also don't have a very large home to heat/cool, either. Medium size and right for me. I even close off one bedroom's vents and door to eliminate the need to heat or cool it. It's like a storage room. Also, bills are different based on the area you live in. I don't have severe winter temps like Truckee but it's not as pleasant as, say, San Diego. All that's relative to what I pay but still it's gone up this year. One thing more is that I'm a year older now and old by many people's standards so I need more warmth in the winter to stay comfortable. The old heart just doesn't pump like it did when I was 40. The bright side of that issue is that I don't need it as cool in the summer, either.

It's still horrible to have to pay these rates, though. And I especially don't like to pay for their negligence but I am, and so are the rest of us who have PG&E as our utility source.

[Jane M]

Yes. It is that bad. Our house uses both gas and electricity from PGE. Our central heat, stove and water heater are gas. All other appliances are electric. We have an electric car and all bulbs in our house are LED. We are 2 adults. No kids, no pets, no pool, no jacuzzi, etc.. Our home is 1600 square feet. It's an older house, remodeled. We rent it.

PGE has a tiered rate system for both gas and electricity. Because we both are at home all day, we can use appliances like washer, dryer, and dishwasher during off-peak hours. The car is scheduled to charge only after midnight.
During the winter, our heater is on from 9 a.m to 9p.m at 65 degrees. Then, at 9 pm, we shut it off. So, in short, we do our best to conserve energy.

Between late 2022 and early 2023, gas was expensive. PGE gas rates in July 2022 were $1.85 and $2.10 per therm in tiers 1 and 2 respectively. By February 2023 PGE gas rates were, after multiple, consecutive increases $2.75 and $3.15 per therm. Our average bill during that period was about $330.00. The highest bill that year was $490.00

In previous years, rates for electricity are generally $ 0.31 and 0.39 per KWH for tiers 1 and 2 respectively. This year, however, rates for the lowest tier (off peak) is $0.34/KWH, but peak rates are $0.53/KWH and they added a tier "part peak" (I think it's 3pm-4pm) at $0.51/KWH.

PGE is going to raise it twice more. Electricity will be about .60/KWH at some point this year.

Our electricity bills before 2021 were generally $125.00 - $150.00. Now they are regularly $250.00+ We were not at home for 14 full days in a billing cycle and our bill was still $300.00.

In the news, you always read that rate hikes will add "another 30.00$ to the bill." But the rate hikes double your bill.

Additionally, we in CA are going to get another charge to our PGE bill based on income. Some people will be paying an additional 200.00$ per month on top of what they are pay for gas and electricity charge.

[AnythingOutdoors]

Originally Posted by Jane M

Yes. It is that bad. Our house uses both gas and electricity from PGE. Our central heat, stove and water heater are gas. All other appliances are electric. We have an electric car and all bulbs in our house are LED. We are 2 adults. No kids, no pets, no pool, no jacuzzi, etc.. Our home is 1600 square feet. It's an older house, remodeled. We rent it.

PGE has a tiered rate system for both gas and electricity. Because we both are at home all day, we can use appliances like washer, dryer, and dishwasher during off-peak hours. The car is scheduled to charge only after midnight.
During the winter, our heater is on from 9 a.m to 9p.m at 65 degrees. Then, at 9 pm, we shut it off. So, in short, we do our best to conserve energy.

Between late 2022 and early 2023, gas was expensive. PGE gas rates in July 2022 were $1.85 and $2.10 per therm in tiers 1 and 2 respectively. By February 2023 PGE gas rates were, after multiple, consecutive increases $2.75 and $3.15 per therm. Our average bill during that period was about $330.00. The highest bill that year was $490.00

In previous years, rates for electricity are generally $ 0.31 and 0.39 per KWH for tiers 1 and 2 respectively. This year, however, rates for the lowest tier (off peak) is $0.34/KWH, but peak rates are $0.53/KWH and they added a tier "part peak" (I think it's 3pm-4pm) at $0.51/KWH.

PGE is going to raise it twice more. Electricity will be about .60/KWH at some point this year.

Our electricity bills before 2021 were generally $125.00 - $150.00. Now they are regularly $250.00+ We were not at home for 14 full days in a billing cycle and our bill was still $300.00.

In the news, you always read that rate hikes will add "another 30.00$ to the bill." But the rate hikes double your bill.

Additionally, we in CA are going to get another charge to our PGE bill based on income. Some people will be paying an additional 200.00$ per month on top of what they are pay for gas and electricity charge.

Thanks for the detailed analysis. Those numbers are truly... awful.

We have a gas furnace, gas water heater, AC.

I just looked up our natural gas bill (we have separate electric and gas providers): We pay $0.65 per therm, no tiers.

Our electric rate: $0.089/kWh for the first 800 kWh. We typically only make it into the second tier during summer when we're running the AC. Just looked it up, and it's $0.10/kWh.

[Jane M]

Originally Posted by AnythingOutdoors

Thanks for the detailed analysis. Those numbers are truly... awful.

We have a gas furnace, gas water heater, AC.

I just looked up our natural gas bill (we have separate electric and gas providers): We pay $0.65 per therm, no tiers.

Our electric rate: $0.089/kWh for the first 800 kWh. We typically only make it into the second tier during summer when we're running the AC. Just looked it up, and it's $0.10/kWh.

I think you guys have that hydroelectric power working for you in Boise, right? Wow. Gas and electricity so cheap! Move over, you have another Californian coming to join you! LOL

[AnythingOutdoors]

Originally Posted by Jane M

I think you guys have that hydroelectric power working for you in Boise, right? Wow. Gas and electricity so cheap! Move over, you have another Californian coming to join you! LOL

Yes, we have a lot of hydro, but also a growing amount of solar and wind. But we're all part of the same Western Interconnection, which means our power generation is all connected. So I don't understand what causes the huge price differences other than PG&E mismanagement.