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The people in rural California generally feel they are ignored. They don't have the population base to get noticed. When government does intrude on their lives, its often to take away water rights, ban logging or bring in a new prison, all of which can feel more like an intrusion of a non-responsive bureaucracy harming their interests than a government that is working on their behalf. The State minimum wage is likely too low to support someone in San Francisco. But a minimum wage that makes sense for coastal California may wipe out half of the jobs in rural California.
So I understand why some people want out.
The fact that you are actually giving it serous thought should be commended. It's democratic and fair.
I included the Sacramento Metro in the new State of North California because it already has an educated workforce; it has the institutional knowledge of being a Capital city. Sacramento has a medium sized international airport, and three large colleges, one is a leading highly rated national University (Davis), the other, Sacramento State is affordable and rated well, and Sacramento has the University of the Pacific's law school.
Because the City and County of Sacramento has a democratic majority it would mean the new North California would not not be just be another "Red State", nor just another "West Virgina". Also, the Sacramento Metro is already quite balanced with all the other counties within the Sacramento metro being right leaning.
The new state would be a Purple state and could be a swing state leaning Democratic or leaning Republican depending on the politics and issues of the time.
The Sacramento Metro is already diversified, it doesn't and never has just relied on state government for its economy, but by creating a new state; it likely would become even more diversified, economically.
The new state North California would have the City of Sacramento which is the most diversified and INTEGRATED large city in the nation. This new state would have a diversified population because of Sacramento and it would have at least one urban city(Sacramento).
The rural counties and towns that want to stay small and rural could easily stay that way, most importantly, they woud have much better representation both statewide and nationally. One or two other cites such as Redding, Chico, and/or Eureka could change dramatically, diversifying and drawing private companies nationwide to become truly upper-middle class diversified communities.
The two other public colleges Chico State and Humboldt State would certainly grow in size and stature.
The fact that you are actually giving it serous thought should be commended. It's democratic and fair.
I included the Sacramento Metro in the new State of North California because it already has an educated workforce; it has the institutional knowledge of being a Capital city. Sacramento has a medium sized international airport, and three large colleges, one is a leading highly rated national University (Davis), the other, Sacramento State is affordable and rated well, and Sacramento has the University of the Pacific's law school.
Because the City and County of Sacramento has a democratic majority it would mean the new North California would not not be just be another "Red State", nor just another "West Virgina". Also, the Sacramento Metro is already quite balanced with all the other counties within the Sacramento metro being right leaning.
I think what you are saying is reasonable which is why I don't think it would work. The people in the rural areas feel disenfranchised. Whether its substantively correct or not, people in rural California think the left has been hijacked by the knowledge workers (think Google, Apple Facebook) and that it is ignoring the interests of white working class people. The wealthy communities like Marin are all solidly liberal and the poorest counties in the state are all Republican. While there are wealthy whites in places like Marin are privileged, the white cashier at the Auto Zone in Oroville isn't feeling privileged and just feels like no one is looking after his interest. That is why he wants to form Jefferson to create a government that is responsive to people like him. If the State is purple, how is he any better off than if he is in California?
The new state would be a Purple state and could be a swing state leaning Democratic or leaning Republican depending on the politics and issues of the time.
The Sacramento Metro is already diversified, it doesn't and never has just relied on state government for its economy, but by creating a new state; it likely would become even more diversified, economically.
The new state North California would have the City of Sacramento which is the most diversified and INTEGRATED large city in the nation. This new state would have a diversified population because of Sacramento and it would have at least one urban city(Sacramento).
The rural counties and towns that want to stay small and rural could easily stay that way, most importantly, they woud have much better representation both statewide and nationally. One or two other cites such as Redding, Chico, and/or Eureka could change dramatically, diversifying and drawing private companies nationwide to become truly upper-middle class diversified communities.
The two other public colleges Chico State and Humboldt State would certainly grow in size and stature.
If Sacramento is in Jefferson what happens to its tax base? A big chunk of the money in Sacramento comes from transfer payments (taxes) from the rest of California to pay for the administration of the vast bureaucracy that is the current state government for the State of California. If that state Capitol moves to Burbank, so to do all of those state jobs.
Sacramento without state government is like Detroit without the auto industry or Pittsburgh without the Steel industry. At some point it may diversify but the transition could be painful. My hunch is that Sacramento doesn't want to be in Jefferson either. Same for Yolo County. Small states like North Dakota and Montana just don't have the tax base to support a school like UC Davis, how could Jefferson?
1. Yes the "Jefferson" people in the small towns and rural areas of North California would likely not want Sacramento County nor Yolo County(because of Davis), but they would want the other areas of the Sacramento Metro such as Placer, El Dorado, Sutter, and Yuba Counties. But, if they want their state to have more relevance and not just be another "West Virginia" they would need to include Sacramento County and Yolo County specifically because it contains the University of California, Davis.
2. North California would be very much like Oregon with large rural areas, libertarian small towns, one very liberal stand alone college town, and one larger liberal City, but its one large metro area would be more politically balanced. Think Davis and Eugene; Sacramento and Portland; Sacramento Valley and Willamette Valley; numerous small towns both mountain and coastal; and large rural areas. North California would, also, be similar to Wisconsin, think: Davis=Madison; Sacramento=Milwaukee, the rest of the state is rural.
3. Marin and Sonoma Counties would not be part of North California. But, very very liberal Humboldt county which is very very white, though it is neither wealthy nor privileged, would be included in North California.
4. The reason for creating a new state doesn't just involve better representation for the "poor, rural, non-privileged white guy", but he would be better represented in the North California that I am describing than in the current California. All the poor, non-privileged folks, of any race, gender, or sexual orientation would be better represented in a new North California.
5. The Sacramento Metro already has an large educated work force; it could easily transform into an economy that relies less on state government. Sacramento already has a foothold in non-government industries. It's motivation would be the mere fact it is the main/largest city in its own state. It's economy could transform into what Austin, Portland, San Antonio, and Denver are like now.
6. Regarding UC Davis and the other public schools: Humboldt, Chico and Sac State. The infrastructure is already there, the institutional knowledge is already there; the students would still come from where they come from now such as SoCal, the Bay Area, Sacramento, and the rest of the nation and world. These colleges could become private, as well, or operate more like a private school.
7. That's funny you picked Burbank to be the new Capitol of California. San Luis Obispo would be my 1st choice.
The people in rural California generally feel they are ignored. They don't have the population base to get noticed. When government does intrude on their lives, its often to take away water rights, ban logging or bring in a new prison, all of which can feel more like an intrusion of a non-responsive bureaucracy harming their interests than a government that is working on their behalf. The State minimum wage is likely too low to support someone in San Francisco. But a minimum wage that makes sense for coastal California may wipe out half of the jobs in rural California.
So I understand why some people want out.
If they "want out", they'll have to move to Nevada or Arizona.
That comes with a whole 'nother set of problems for them...
Try getting Gov. Ducey and the right-wing AZ legislature to cut a check for your health care clinics and daycare programs, or asking them to raise the minimum wage or provide funds for rehab/job re-entry.
If Sacramento is in Jefferson what happens to its tax base? A big chunk of the money in Sacramento comes from transfer payments (taxes) from the rest of California to pay for the administration of the vast bureaucracy that is the current state government for the State of California. If that state Capitol moves to Burbank, so to do all of those state jobs.
7. That's funny you picked Burbank to be the new Capitol of California. San Luis Obispo would be my 1st choice.
Burbank as the new state capitol of the hypothetical "State of Southern California" never crossed my mind. There just isn't the needed room there. I find Burbank to be waaaay too congested.
I would propose somewhere out in Riverside County?
Hemet could really use a shot in the arm, and being the new State Capitol for So Cal would do just that!
Burbank as the new state capitol of the hypothetical "State of Southern California" never crossed my mind. There just isn't the needed room there. I find Burbank to be waaaay too congested.
I would propose somewhere out in Riverside County?
Hemet could really use a shot in the arm, and being the new State Capitol for So Cal would do just that!
If Arvin doesn’t get the nod for new capitol, all hell’s going to break loose there. Expect riots like we haven’t seen since 92 in LA ...
1. Yes the "Jefferson" people in the small towns and rural areas of North California would likely not want Sacramento County nor Yolo County(because of Davis), but they would want the other areas of the Sacramento Metro such as Placer, El Dorado, Sutter, and Yuba Counties. But, if they want their state to have more relevance and not just be another "West Virginia" they would need to include Sacramento County and Yolo County specifically because it contains the University of California, Davis.
2. North California would be very much like Oregon with large rural areas, libertarian small towns, one very liberal stand alone college town, and one larger liberal City, but its one large metro area would be more politically balanced. Think Davis and Eugene; Sacramento and Portland; Sacramento Valley and Willamette Valley; numerous small towns both mountain and coastal; and large rural areas. North California would, also, be similar to Wisconsin, think: Davis=Madison; Sacramento=Milwaukee, the rest of the state is rural.
3. Marin and Sonoma Counties would not be part of North California. But, very very liberal Humboldt county which is very very white, though it is neither wealthy nor privileged, would be included in North California.
4. The reason for creating a new state doesn't just involve better representation for the "poor, rural, non-privileged white guy", but he would be better represented in the North California that I am describing than in the current California. All the poor, non-privileged folks, of any race, gender, or sexual orientation would be better represented in a new North California.
5. The Sacramento Metro already has an large educated work force; it could easily transform into an economy that relies less on state government. Sacramento already has a foothold in non-government industries. It's motivation would be the mere fact it is the main/largest city in its own state. It's economy could transform into what Austin, Portland, San Antonio, and Denver are like now.
6. Regarding UC Davis and the other public schools: Humboldt, Chico and Sac State. The infrastructure is already there, the institutional knowledge is already there; the students would still come from where they come from now such as SoCal, the Bay Area, Sacramento, and the rest of the nation and world. These colleges could become private, as well, or operate more like a private school.
7. That's funny you picked Burbank to be the new Capitol of California. San Luis Obispo would be my 1st choice.
State government employment not including schools is currently 91,200 jobs and those jobs when including benefits and retirement likely pay more than the average job in Sacramento County. If Sacramento is no longer the Capitol of California and instead becomes the Capitol of Jefferson, how many of those jobs move to Burbank (or San Luis Obispo)? California right now has 40 million people and lets say that 3 million are in the proposed State of Jefferson, that means Jefferson has 7.5% of the population and because Jefferson is a lot less affluent it likely has an even smaller share of the tax base. So if Sacramento managed to keep 10,000 state jobs in the new state of Jefferson, I think it would be lucky.
Its the potential loss of 80,000 jobs in Sacramento County that I think would cause the local business civic establishment in Sacramento to freak out and do everything to keep Sacramento in California and not in Jefferson. When the primary industry collapses in your area, it can take decades to replace those jobs and the replacement industries may not pay as well. Think about what happened to Pittsburgh after the Steel Industry collapsed or to Detroit as the auto industry fled. Think about the problems Stockton or Fresno have had in diversifying their economies even though Stockton is in the same general proximity to the Bay Area as Sacramento.
Even if Sacramento and Yolo were included in the proposed State of Jefferson, I don't think Jefferson would have the tax base to support UC Davis, plus Chico State and Humboldt State, CSUS. Just supporting Humboldt and Chico State at their current level of funding would be difficult. So I don't Yolo joins Jefferson. I think there is a strong chance Humboldt doesn't either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple92680
If they "want out", they'll have to move to Nevada or Arizona.
That comes with a whole 'nother set of problems for them...
Try getting Gov. Ducey and the right-wing AZ legislature to cut a check for your health care clinics and daycare programs, or asking them to raise the minimum wage or provide funds for rehab/job re-entry.
Ain't happenin'
The problem in in the Northern part of California is that minimum wage that activists are pushing for statewide to protect people in the expensive parts of Coastal California is so high that if you are living in places like Oroville or Susanville, it could wipe out somewhere between 1/2 and 2/3 of the jobs in those communities. Which is why these people are feeling disenfranchised. Similarly when the state raises the tax on gasoline to fight global warming, in Coastal California it may offset that by increasing the subsidies on BART or the MTS, but in the rural areas of California mass transit really isn't an effective alternative and again increasing the gas tax for these people is just a really regressive tax on the working poor people who live in these areas.
If your only choices is to move or to organize to form a State of Jefferson, can you see how unresponsive State Government is to your needs? This is what I mean about these people feeling disenfranchised. They have awful options.
But I also agree that Jefferson likely won't happen. These people aren't well organized and are a completely marginalized group in California, whose interests are ignored.
It would be nothing more than a West Coast version of West Virginia without the coal industry.
You're right, Jefferson would be another West Virginia. The timber industry and sawmills have been in decline for decades, just as coal is a dead man walking industry too.
Who or what State will control the water?
Whoever controls the water will be the ultimate power in the area.
SoCal is most vulnerable to water shortages and a large part of that water comes from other states.
Two words....water rights. Nor Cal can whine and moan all they want. Right now it’s not their water. Probably never be theirs either as the SOJ will not happen. Even if it does and it’s a huge IF....water rights don’t just end. It’s funny how Nor Cal people have such issue with So Cal “taking their water “ but have no issue taking tax money from So Cal. Wanna be independent? Put your money we’re your out his. How the hell do you think all those roads and social services happen up there. It sure as crap isn’t self sustaining from local taxes. It takes more money to sustain a rural area than it does a urban area.
Last edited by Electrician4you; 07-14-2020 at 07:49 AM..
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