Is There Anything to Dislike about Burlington? (Rutland, Brattleboro: condo, co-op)

[arel]

Almost everyone writes rhapsodically about the wonder that is Burlington, Vermont.

Nothing else comes close.

One poster, from a huge Asian city, left Burlington because it was too small for her. But that was not a criticism; she just felt the need to live in a large city. She chose New York.

I think the only negatives I have read concern the drug scene (limited), the rowdy UVM students (also limited), the cost of living, the wind off Lake Champlain in the winter, and, of course, the cold. Thirty below?

As for me, I find the location of Burlington to be a problem. Much as I would love being close to Montreal, one of my very favorite cities, I would dislike being so far from NYC (although it is an easy trip by plane), southern New England, the Pioneer Valley, southern Maine and the Atlantic coast.

I do have concerns that Burlington will be flooded with people because of the great press it gets, and that this may harm the character of the city, or at least make it more expensive to live in. But this is purely speculative.

Have I missed any important negatives? I'm not looking to bash Burlington, and it is not impossible that I may eventually move there if Brattleboro feels too small for me, but I am looking for reasons to not feel deprived.

[Sherylcatmom]

Originally Posted by arel

Almost everyone writes rhapsodically about the wonder that is Burlington, Vermont. Nothing else comes close.

As with all opinions, this is entirely subjective. I like Burlington's resources but I have absolutely know desire to live in or around Burlington. For me, it is too crowded, too busy, and has too much sprawl. However, those characteristics are not the factor that keeps me from living in/around Burlington. The deal-breaker for me is that in/near Burlington, I get absolutely no sense of "this is my home." No matter how much I like about a place, I simply must feel like I am home or I am not going to live there.

Originally Posted by arel

One poster, from a huge Asian city, left Burlington because it was too small for her. But that was not a criticism; she just felt the need to live in a large city. She chose New York.

Exactly my point. Burlington is too big for me and it was too small for this person. However, it's just right for many, many people!

Originally Posted by arel

I think the only negatives I have read concern the drug scene (limited), the rowdy UVM students (also limited), the cost of living, the wind off Lake Champlain in the winter, and, of course, the cold. Thirty below?

To me, the weather in Burlington is not as different from other parts of Vermont as the actual character and experience of the place. Downtown does get very windy, being right on Lake Champlain, but if Burlington felt like home to me, the weather (and drugs and students) wouldn't slow me down from moving there.

Originally Posted by arel

I do have concerns that Burlington will be flooded with people because of the great press it gets, and that this may harm the character of the city, or at least make it more expensive to live in. But this is purely speculative.

This seems plausible to me. It is getting more crowded all the time. The suburban sprawl of manufactured neighborhoods radiating out from Burlington is very unattractive to me. Even if I loved the city itself, I would probably feel trapped & claustrophobic by the surrounding 'burbs (which to be fair don't compare to "real" cities' 'burbs, such as Denver's & Miami's).

I've lived in Miami, Boston, & NYC. I have never felt deprived living in Vermont. Do I miss amazing restaurants and endless culture? Absolutely! But I would not trade the Vermont living experience for those things. Not for a minute. Brattleboro, for example, has plenty of what I need and Burlington has it in spades. But that is not true for everyone. Some people would not trade vastly diverse cultural offerings for Vermont life. Again, entirely subjective. I don't think you can know until you've tried it and realized what your priorities are at this point in your life.

[arel]

As always, Sherylcatmom, your points are very well taken!

I tried to give you some rep points, but the software wouldn't let me.

One thing I do love about NYC is the ethnic and cultural diversity. I meet people from all over the world. Just this week, I stopped in a deli and the guy at the counter was Pakistani. I offered my condolences over what had happened in Pakistan.

There are lots of ethnic restaurants in NYC, in both Manhattan and in the outer boroughs. There are a LOT of ethnic restaurants in Queens, which, I believe, is the most ethnically diverse county in the country.

But nothing compares to food from the Brattleboro Food Co-op, even food from the Flatbush Food Co-op here in Brooklyn. I think the best muffin I ever ate came from the Brattleboro Co-op. And the closest thing we have here to local produce is farmers' market produce from upstate New York.

And Brattleboro does have SIT, with its international student body. Plus urban-style, surburban-style and rural neighborhoods. Thankfully, it does NOT have the "surburban sprawl of manufactured neighborhoods", which you described.

My only concern about a small town like Brattleboro is that you run into the same people all the time. It's like being on a college campus. It's probably healthier to be known than to be invisible, as you are in a big city (although not as much in the residential neighborhoods). But I am concered about insularity, about gossip and about running into the same people in mutually incompatible contexts.

Maybe 2008 will be the year I move to Brattleboro. Maybe I'll wait for the housing crisis to stabilize first. Maybe not.

[vter]

Like Sherylcatmom said, only you can figure that out for yourself. EVERYONE is different. I LOVE Burlington (and the surrounding area). I live in a rural community about 20 miles away and work in SB. Burlington has everything I want/need in a town (well, except Target). I for one could never live in Rutland where Sherylcatmom lives, but thats just my personal opinion. Obviously Sherycatmom loves it and thats great!
Regarding sprawl etc. in Burlington, its there but its not on the scale of larger areas as mentioned above. I was just down in the Boston area and Burlington's suburbs seem like tiny villages compared to down there.

[Sherylcatmom]

Originally Posted by arel

As always, Sherylcatmom, your points are very well taken! I tried to give you some rep points, but the software wouldn't let me.

Thank you! I appreciate the thought. :-)

Originally Posted by vter

I for one could never live in Rutland where Sherylcatmom lives, but thats just my personal opinion.

Exactly. And it shows that there are some forms of diversity in Vermont, even if it's not the cultural/racial/ethnic diversity one normally thinks of.

[Mad Taoist]

I'm hoping a native Burlington resident can settle this weather issue.
I've read here that Burlington is 10 - 15 degrees warmer than the rest of the state due to the elevation, lake warming, and population density. Then I read that it's just as cold due to the winds that come off the lake.
How many weeks a year are below zero? Does the lake moisture give more snow or more sunless weeks of overcast?
My California native wife has a hard enough time with Wisconsin, so we're hesitant about taking a step further down the thermometer.

[arel]

Originally Posted by vter

Like Sherylcatmom said, only you can figure that out for yourself. EVERYONE is different. I LOVE Burlington (and the surrounding area). I live in a rural community about 20 miles away and work in SB. Burlington has everything I want/need in a town (well, except Target). I for one could never live in Rutland where Sherylcatmom lives, but thats just my personal opinion. Obviously Sherycatmom loves it and thats great!
Regarding sprawl etc. in Burlington, its there but its not on the scale of larger areas as mentioned above. I was just down in the Boston area and Burlington's suburbs seem like tiny villages compared to down there.

I'm so used to thinking of "up" in the Boston area. "Down" sounds surreal.

Culture shock!

How north are you in northern New England, anywat? A friend of mine saw the Aurora Borealis while doing summer stock one summer in Maine. Do you ever see the Aurora Borealis in Vermont? How about southern Vermont? Well, that is pushing it, I know.

[vter]

There was a great Northern Lights show maybe three years ago. I am 20 miles SE of Burlington. The further north you are, the better for the Northern Lights though. They are gorgeous!!!!

[Sherylcatmom]

Originally Posted by vter

I for one could never live in Rutland where Sherylcatmom lives, but thats just my personal opinion. Obviously Sherycatmom loves it and thats great!

This is a Burlington thread, but I want to offer clarification. VTER, I used to feel as you did about Rutland. Back when I lived in Keene, NH and drove up Route 7 regularly to visit friends in Hinesburg, I thought, "Eww, glad I don't have to stop in Rutland!" Then I met the man who would become my husband. He lived in Rutland. He had more ties in Rutland than I had in Keene, so I moved to Rutland. As I discovered, 'tis a far, far better place than I imagined before I scratched the surface.

If I had simply been looking for an ideal place to relocate, Rutland would not have been my pick. Since I am here, I literally make the best of it. I seek out what resonates with me (e.g., the Co-op, Back Home Again Cafe, certain social/service groups) and enjoy them to the max. Will I stay in Rutland the rest of my life? Probably not. Will I stay in Vermont? Probably. But if for some reason I had to stay in Rutland (whatever "had to" means), I could be fine with that.

If I had not found enough to love about Rutland, if I could not describe it as positively as I do, we wouldn't have stayed here as long as we have. Rutland is far from paradise, but I have not found it to be the cultureless hole that others sometimes make it out to be -- not at all.

I regularly hear people complain bitterly about New England weather, how much they'd rather live somewhere warm, or whatever else it is they hate about where they are. Maybe they're just making conversation, but if I were complaining about a place to that degree, I would move and quick. Come to think of it, that's how I talked about SFla when I lived there (I'm a native of Miami Beach and still have lots of family there). So I moved to a region where I'm much happier. Now my talk is happier, too. :-)

[tkln]

Arel - Yesterday for the first time I drove through Brattleboro. Granted, it was to take local roads to avoid the parking lot that I91 was, but I digress...

I never realized how 'big' Brat was! I assumed it was as small as the towns we are looking into, but it's a LOT bigger. I can't imagine ever knowing EVERYONE in a town of 4,000, let alone one as large as Brat. The downtown is fairly large, the architecture was beautiful, it had a wonderful feeling to it...I don't think I would miss NY too much if I moved there, seems like there are a lot of things to keep you busy.

I almost cried coming home yesterday...and it wasn't because it took 9 hours. I've gotten to the point of serious depression when I leave VT, because it is home in my heart. I've begun to really, really dislike NY, which is partly because I think I'm ready to go and am upset that I can't leave yet. But it will happen.

But I think 2008 seems like a great time for you to move.