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The Jags amphitheater was paid for by the owner and the entire DOWNTOWN area around the stadium is being redeveloped for entertainment. If it made any financial sense I am sure the Bills would have done the same thing as they did with the hockey team. They took the cheapo way out and stuck in the same spot and now the area missed its once in a century chance to really change things.
We also have not only developers interested in the land that ECC South is on and is looking to sell, but also from officials in that area that are interested in development around the stadium. If anything, the lack of walkability and activity in that area is a missing piece to the new stadium development. Especially considering the trend in development around new stadiums.
Blizzards aren't necessarily death sentences and people appear to do fine after them in that area of the metro. So, I don't know why this reach of a comment/concern is coming up.
Especially given that the area the potential development is in is a growing area. So, people know what they are getting into.
I'm curious what the next deflection or "what if" will be, when the reality is that stadium developments in recent years involved some degree of mixed use development in the immediate area.
No, The REALITY is that the stadium has been there for 50 years.
Stadium development has been a "thing" for 30 years. Not that that maters.
The fact that after all this time, there hasn't been an Anchor Bar, Duff's, Charlie the Butcher, or any other business set up shop there after all these years is telling.
You keep stating the fact about the "golden horseshoe" population and no one argues that fact with you. Why can't you accept the fact of 50 years with no development?
Have you ever lived in Orchard Park? Walking in the winter, are you kidding? Maybe skiing and sledding which are popular at Chestnut Ridge, but walking is not an option. There are virtually no sidewalks outside the Village.
No, The REALITY is that the stadium has been there for 50 years.
Stadium development has been a "thing" for 30 years. Not that that maters.
The fact that after all this time, there hasn't been an Anchor Bar, Duff's, Charlie the Butcher, or any other business set up shop there after all these years is telling.
You keep stating the fact about the "golden horseshoe" population and no one argues that fact with you. Why can't you accept the fact of 50 years with no development?
No, it doesn't as such development is a relative recent occurrence and the land in question is occupied. That last part is key, as it is about land that will be or is slated to be freed up. That is an important part to this discussion and on the same hand, you have to consider the trend with mixed use development along with the stadium. If anything, the new stadium without such development would be quite odd, given that it isn't just about the gameday atmosphere anymore in most, if not all NFL stadiums. Here is another one taking place near the new Levi's Stadium where the 49ers play: https://www.housingfinance.com/devel...evis-stadium_o
As for the other post, you are making my point for me as to why such a development may also make sense, as walkability or at least close proximity would likely be a part of the development.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 03-28-2024 at 09:13 AM..
No, it doesn't as such development is a relative recent occurrence and the land in question is occupied. That last part is key, as it is about land that will be or is slated to be freed up. That is an important part to this discussion and on the same hand, you have to consider the trend with mixed use development along with the stadium. If anything, the new stadium without such development would be quite odd, given that it isn't just about the gameday atmosphere anymore in most, if not all NFL stadiums. Here is another one taking place near the new Levi's Stadium where the 49ers play: https://www.housingfinance.com/devel...evis-stadium_o
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Nothing in the article mentioned the stadium. So it's a few blocks away, in a very affluent urban area. I don't get how this is even relevant to the discussion.
The only thing about the ECC campus is the proximity to parking. Of course, the town officials are going to promote that property, and boast of it's potential. First and foremost, they want the additional property tax revenue, although I'm sure any developer won't pay taxes in full for 10 years. The fact that a close by restaurant has gone out of business doesn't help your argument.
I lived near that area and its deadsville. The businesses and landowners nearby are hyping their once in a lifetime chance to get rid of property in proximity to the new/old stadium. If there wasn't a 50 year history of non development it would be easier. Don't you think Erie County has been watching this closely, as an opportunity to unload that South Campus. If the area was growing and as vibrant as claimed, why is the university closing in the face of declining enrollment?
The Jags amphitheater was paid for by the owner and the entire DOWNTOWN area around the stadium is being redeveloped for entertainment. If it made any financial sense I am sure the Bills would have done the same thing as they did with the hockey team. They took the cheapo way out and stuck in the same spot and now the area missed its once in a century chance to really change things.
It's almost cliche at this point that new stadia don't produce nearly as much spinoff development as promised/assumed. Jacksonville may be an exception here, but studies have been done on the topic, and the conclusion is that subsidizing new sports stadia doesn't make economic sense. But it's a difficult to put a number on impact on collective morale. Buffalo desperately needed the Bills to stay in Buffalo from the standpoint of residents' psychology.
Nothing in the article mentioned the stadium. So it's a few blocks away, in a very affluent urban area. I don't get how this is even relevant to the discussion.
The only thing about the ECC campus is the proximity to parking. Of course, the town officials are going to promote that property, and boast of it's potential. First and foremost, they want the additional property tax revenue, although I'm sure any developer won't pay taxes in full for 10 years. The fact that a close by restaurant has gone out of business doesn't help your argument.
I know...No, it is an example of mixed use development around a newer NFL stadium.
Don't conflate that a restaurant has closed for an example that a mixed use development cant be created at the ECC property. Who knows why the restaurant closed and for all we know, someone is interested in that land that it was on and they sold out.
"With SUNY Erie Community College looking to move out of its underused South Campus next door to the new $1.7 billion Buffalo Bills stadium in favor of a smaller site in the area, there may be an opportunity for developers to bring a major attraction, retail and housing or multifloor hotel to the area."
If there is interest, that is.
The college’s properties – if they were put up for sale – would join a number of properties just a stone’s throw away from where the new stadium is being built on Abbott Road in Orchard Park that are already on sale or could be in the near future, enticing developers to start a project at or around the stadium as it opens in 2026.
The ECC property is by far the biggest – 102 acres in all – potentially giving developers the chance to do something even more significant.
But there are still questions about whether that type of development will happen. There has been very little trickle-down development around the stadium since the Bills came to Orchard Park from Buffalo five decades ago.
Local developers, nonetheless, say the ECC campus is prime for redevelopment into a “town center,” which combines housing with shopping and recreational attractions that could make the stadium and surrounding area more of a year-round experience.
It could also open the door to creating a Bills-themed tourist attraction like Titletown, which was built next to Lambeau Field in Green Bay, or a tailgate village. Green Bay, the only market smaller than Buffalo in the NFL, is an example of what could be done around a stadium, where developers stepped up, in coordination with the Packers, to build mixed-use projects around Lambeau Field.
“I would think there’s a good possibility of that happening,” said William Paladino, CEO of Ellicott Development Co., one of the region’s largest private real estate developers. “I could see somebody looking at doing that, if not the Bills themselves.”
But, even as ECC could become available, some of the roadblocks remain in place that have been in the way of development since the team played its first game in Orchard Park.
Zoning laws for areas around the stadium can be unfriendly to potential developers. One provision cited as holding back development prohibits buildings taller than 2.5 stories, which limits potential hotel projects. (likely played a part in the lack of development over the years)
Local politicians continue to grapple with how – and if – it is prudent to make zoning changes, and whether they will make a noticeable difference.
Most of the remaining ECC South Campus is in the bordering Town of Hamburg and zoned for residential use, so it would likely require a new zoning district that accommodates economic development, including ancillary uses to the stadium.
Then there is the question of demand. Without a stadium that hosts much more than about 10 to 12 NFL games and a few summer concerts each year, there may continue to be little interest from developers to make a big investment in an area without an entertainment district or some ancillary development.
The Bills decided against building a domed stadium, which would have likely cost another $400 million dollars or so, but also would have made the stadium more accessible for events year-round.
“You’ve got your anchor tenant, but what’s the supporting entertainment that’s going to bring people there beyond game days?” said John Cimperman, a longtime marketing executive and owner of 42North Brewing Co.
“That’s critical, because you can’t fill up hotel rooms and deal with the ebbs and flows of staffing without some consistent foot traffic,” he said. “You need to create the critical mass of people there on a Tuesday night in February.”
ECC campus sale inevitable
The future of the ECC campus, situated between Southwestern Boulevard and Big Tree Road, has been in limbo for years as enrollment continues to dip. But once the new stadium deal was agreed to in 2022, it seemed only a matter of time until the campus gave way to another purpose.
Owned by the college, the South Campus consists of eight buildings on what was formerly 161 acres of grounds. Only three of those 1970s-era buildings are currently being used. The county already transferred about 59 acres of former athletic fields to the state for the Bills stadium project.
The school’s board of trustees put out a request for proposals for a new location in December, and hopes to make a move sometime before or during the 2024-2025 school year.
ECC Board Chair Jeffrey Stone has said the college, for years, has been discussing ways to consolidate its three-campus footprint, and stressed that the potential move has nothing to do with the stadium being constructed next door.
Erie County Legislator John Mills, whose 11th district includes the new stadium, said ECC South has not received the maintenance or attention that the college’s other campuses have, and would be expensive to renovate at a time when enrollment has dwindled. He said ECC would be wise to sell the property and lease other space in the Southtowns to continue serving that area as it grows.
After ECC finds a new home, its current property would need to be declared and approved as surplus property by the school’s board. That would allow the county to auction the land to the highest bidder, with proceeds of the sale going to the college, according to a spokesperson for Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz.
Like Orchard Park, which received a $100,000 grant last year to study development around the stadium, Hamburg has also pondered zoning changes by creating a stadium impact area that would include the “seven corners” at McKinley Parkway in Hamburg up Southwestern Boulevard toward Highmark Stadium.
That area currently is mostly a mixture of light industrial and heavy industrial zoning, and includes some residential property. Commercial uses in the area are limited.
Hamburg officials have acknowledged the importance of the ECC property as an economic driver, saying in the town’s comprehensive plan that the “area should not just be a parking lot but an important destination.”
However, Joshua Rogers, the town’s planning consultant from the Wendel architectural firm, said “nothing has come up (of late) about the area around the stadium from a Town of Hamburg perspective.”
Plenty of opportunities
Paul Ciminelli, CEO of Ciminelli Real Estate Corp., said he has always thought the sale and transformation of ECC would make sense.
Ciminelli suggested a private developer might be interested in building a planned-unit development, with a mix of single- and multifamily housing, townhouses and even senior living, as well as scaled retail and restaurants. Others have said the property would be ideal for a museum, amphitheater, recreational complex or small arena.
“That’s what other communities do when they do these types of stadium projects,” Ciminelli said.
But what may be needed the most in the area is a multifloor hotel.
In Orchard Park, there is not a single hotel in the village, and only three one-floor motels in the town – all on Southwestern Boulevard. Most efforts over the years to build a large hotel in the municipality have been thwarted by officials wanting the area to remain quaint.
Between the ECC property and other space that could become available on Southwestern Boulevard close to the stadium – the former Twin Oak Motel, which was demolished in 2021, and La Galleria banquet center, which is closed but not yet up for sale – there’s plenty of room for a hotel, said Don Lorentz, executive director of the Orchard Park Chamber of Commerce.
That could be a specialty hotel, such as a a Great Wolf Lodge, which is not only a resort, but also a water park, featuring restaurants, arcades, spas and children’s activities.
However, getting financing for a hotel next to a stadium that would only be guaranteed to be in high demand a handful of times a year could be a challenge, Ciminelli said.
Developers are interested
There is interest from several developers in properties around the stadium, Lorentz said, but they have told him that there first needs to be changes in local zoning laws.
For Orchard Park’s part, the Town Board has been discussing changes that would expand commercial uses in the area. As of now, much of the property around the stadium in Orchard Park is zoned for residential use, except for a commercial strip at Abbott Road and Southwestern Boulevard.
“I’ve been very clear in saying that if we don’t do this sooner, rather than later, we could lose some great opportunities,” Lorentz said. “I’m hoping there’s going to be some action on it. It’s critical for us and the whole Southtowns to do something to make a difference, rather than what we’ve done for the last 50 years.”
Multiple property owners around the stadium have also said they have received inquiries from developers interested in buying their land, but nothing has come of it yet. There are several properties around the stadium also for sale as owners try to take advantage of elevated property values.
Among them, the properties at 3958 and 3964 Southwestern, which total 1.2 acres, are on sale for $2.5 million, while six parcels, anchored by the popular game day and event lot Yellow Brick Parking at 5265 Big Tree Road, totaling 5.6 acres, are listed for $3.5 million. The extensive ECC property would be expected to bring in an even bigger haul.
The Bills have said they do not want to be in the development game. The team is hoping that people more experienced in those areas will eventually develop land around the stadium – most noted right now for parking lots and tailgate space. It may take one developer stepping up with a project in the area to get the development community moving.
“The positives are that we’ll have a state-of-the-art stadium, we’ve got the tailgating and our team is staying for the next generation, but what we don’t have yet is a catalyst for ancillary development,” Cimperman said."
So, this offers those reading this thread some context and information about what brought up the idea for development around the stadium, but also, it mentions aspects as to why it hasn't been done before and why ECC is ooking to move from the South Campus location near the stadium.
Interestingly, the Cleveland Browns owners are considering building a new stadium in Brook Park, 16 miles away from the current Browns Stadium downtown, which opened in 1999. They are looking at 2 options - renovate the existing stadium for $1B, or build a new dome for $2B+ in Brook Park. There has yet to be any determination on how any of it gets paid for.
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