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Their job is to prove concepts credible so they can implement them into their product designs.
Their FIRST priority is to MAKE MONEY ! Ever hear of the little item traded every day called COMPANY STOCK ! They sure the hell aren't going to introduce a simple concept in a manner that is going to shoot themselves in the foot or make someone else rich and that they don't have control over... Get real would ya... You talk like the auto industry has no clue what hydrogen does to fuel economy. It's all about money dude !
Ever wonder why the electric car got buried like it did decades ago ?! I guess according to your perspective of because they didn't manufacture or implement it, it must have never existed... right ? No conspiracy there right ?
Ever wonder why the electric car got buried like it did decades ago ?! I guess according to your perspective of because they didn't manufacture or implement it, it must have never existed... right ? No conspiracy there right ?
Not trying to pick a fight with you over HHO, but you raised a question about why the electric car didn't become popular earlier and regardless of what conspiracy theorists want to believe there was a simple explanation at the time. Batteries were HEAVY. Batteries were EXPENSIVE. Batteries were LEAD. Recharging lead batteries took way too long to be commercially feasible. It was an interesting experiment but the timing was just not right for the economics involved.
ALTERNATE THEORY #1. We all got together back then and plotted against the future generations and decided to stuff the whole idea out of meanness.
ALTERNATE THEORY #2. The Rockfellers - first owners of Standard Oil of New Jersey, forerunner of ------well you could look it up, paid everyone alive back then 1 gazillion dollars to just forget about the idea of electric cars.
ALTERNATE THEORY #3. While in grammar school a young lad named George W. Bush thought it would make a nice class project to see if he could devise an economic system that would bury the idea of an American Electric Car. Who knew he would be so successful in life?
ALTERNATE THEORY #4. The original electric car idea belonged to Lucas Electric Products, Ltd. See here for more details on Lucas, known to fans the world over as "The Prince of Darkness". The company is still actively developing a protype and expect to begin production by 2032. For years most British automobiles used Lucas electrical systems.For decades their simple motto has been: "We Suggest You Get Home Before Dark".
Or, I could just be making the whole thing up. Your choice.
Their FIRST priority is to MAKE MONEY ! Ever hear of the little item traded every day called COMPANY STOCK ! They sure the hell aren't going to introduce a simple concept in a manner that is going to shoot themselves in the foot or make someone else rich and that they don't have control over... Get real would ya... You talk like the auto industry has no clue what hydrogen does to fuel economy. It's all about money dude !
Ever wonder why the electric car got buried like it did decades ago ?! I guess according to your perspective of because they didn't manufacture or implement it, it must have never existed... right ? No conspiracy there right ?
Good God, I can barely stand to read drivel like this, much less take the time to respond to it.
No sh*t their first job is to make money. And how would adding a simple device to their vehicles that would boost fuel economy, thus satisfying both the regulators and consumers, be antithetical to making money? The amount of money the automobile industry spends in one day trying to increase fuel economy is more than you'll ever lay your eyes on in your entire life. The idea that they're not willing to make other people rich in order to make themselves rich is absurd. They auto industry buys or licenses patents all the goddamn time.
Meanwhile, the electric car did not get "buried." They are still out in the wide-open, waiting for someone, anyone, to make the concept marketable on a mass scale. Car companies are spending billions on electric-car R&D right now. The single-minded pursuit of the Chevy Volt concept is a huge part of why GM is on the verge of disappearing. They have been in a race to develop that concept and put it to market before they ran out of cash. Guess what, "ran out of cash" won the race. Numerous boutique electric-car companies that were going to change the world have come and gone. Others currently in existence are hanging by a thread as we speak. The market has spoken, and it has said "we're not willing to accept the tradeoffs of electric cars, thanks."
And you're sitting here telling me to get real. What the hell ever.
I'm not for this or against it. I don't know if it works. I ran some numbers though just to see what would happen. These numbers are just numbers. They are not actual and factual numbers, but it still paints a picture so to speak.
So, let's say that a gas engine is 25% effective and a hydrogen engine is 50% effective. If enough hydrogen can pe produced that one could get a g/h mix at 75% g to 25% h, that would give a total effectiveness of 31.25%. If you take 10% off of the gas effectiveness for the break down of hydrogen, you are still at about 29%. A 4% gain over a regular gas engine.
BUT
If an all hydrogen engine is only 40% effective... you get an engine that is almost 27% effective. Still a gain, but much smaller.
I assume that these devices aren't nearly as effective as the numbers I used. Science is right in that you can't create energy, but one must take into account that when something is added, the nature of the beast is changed.
Both examples I used show a positive gain. It doesn't take much to put the gain into a negative though.
Adding hydrogen to the intake is similar to adding NOS to your car to give it more power. Except you are doing it on a smaller scale for a longer time. With more power available you need less gasoline to drive a constant speed.
You guys might want to take a look at these forums:
Again I've never done it but it seems there is a lot of people out there that have. And they aren't selling the stuff, so no real gain lying about it.
It seems with the newer cars there is less gain most likely due to O2 sensors and overall better efficiencies with newer cars. Also it seems the general consensus is don't buy them online, make them yourself, because people have gotten scammed.
[quote=wheelsup;7227214]Adding hydrogen to the intake is similar to adding NOS to your car to give it more power. Except you are doing it on a smaller scale for a longer time.
Hydrogen and NOS have NOTHING in common.. NOS is an oxidizer...it breaks down, gives you a nitrogen (N2) molecule (dumped out the tail pipe) and an O which reacts with the gasoline.
Hydrogen doesn't do any such thing AT ALL.
Borrow a kids junior high school science book and read up a bit.
Good God, I can barely stand to read drivel like this, much less take the time to respond to it.
Same here... I really can't stand it when one looks at the world in a manner based on the view from inside a closet !
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover
No sh*t their first job is to make money. And how would adding a simple device to their vehicles that would boost fuel economy, thus satisfying both the regulators and consumers, be antithetical to making money? The amount of money the automobile industry spends in one day trying to increase fuel economy is more than you'll ever lay your eyes on in your entire life. The idea that they're not willing to make other people rich in order to make themselves rich is absurd. They auto industry buys or licenses patents all the goddamn time.
Ahhh... They DON'T OWN THE PATENT(s) to this simple device technology ! Do you understand it now ?! They have to develop it in a way that doesn't infringe on the unpteen EXISTING patents on it ! That's how they will make someone else rich... wake up !
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover
Meanwhile, the electric car did not get "buried." They are still out in the wide-open, waiting for someone, anyone, to make the concept marketable on a mass scale. Car companies are spending billions on electric-car R&D right now. The single-minded pursuit of the Chevy Volt concept is a huge part of why GM is on the verge of disappearing. They have been in a race to develop that concept and put it to market before they ran out of cash. Guess what, "ran out of cash" won the race. Numerous boutique electric-car companies that were going to change the world have come and gone. Others currently in existence are hanging by a thread as we speak. The market has spoken, and it has said "we're not willing to accept the tradeoffs of electric cars, thanks."
Apparently you know very little about the auto industry. A production electric vehicle existed in the mid 90's !!! It was well on it's way to being fully refined then mysteriously ended up scrapped ! Humm...
It's amazing, I follow the auto industry pretty close. It is really funny how during the hearings on capital hill, all 3 US auto makers happened to DRIVE ELECTRIC VEHICLES tot eh meetings. Humm.... I guess they must have put those vehicles together overnight ! They've had them for YEARS ! Wonder why it is only NOW that they are coming out of the woodwork. Has somehting to do with money I'm guessing.
I bet you think the oil industry is all on the straight and narrow too and has had nothing to do with any of this don't you... Get out of that closet !
Adding hydrogen to the intake is similar to adding NOS to your car to give it more power. Except you are doing it on a smaller scale for a longer time.
Hydrogen and NOS have NOTHING in common.. NOS is an oxidizer...it breaks down, gives you a nitrogen (N2) molecule (dumped out the tail pipe) and an O which reacts with the gasoline.
Hydrogen doesn't do any such thing AT ALL.
Borrow a kids junior high school science book and read up a bit.
One thing they both have in common is to cool the air/fuel mixture which creates more power when it's ignited.
Last edited by Drover; 01-29-2009 at 12:29 PM..
Reason: fix quote heading
Ahhh... They DON'T OWN THE PATENT(s) to this simple device technology ! Do you understand it now ?! They have to develop it in a way that doesn't infringe on the unpteen EXISTING patents on it ! That's how they will make someone else rich... wake up !
If there are supposedly umpteen different patentable ways to do the same thing, then why not an umpteenth and one? Or, they could just license the patent, which is something they do all the time. And haven't these things been around long enough that any patent on the concept has expired?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan_K
Apparently you know very little about the auto industry. A production electric vehicle existed in the mid 90's !!! It was well on it's way to being fully refined then mysteriously ended up scrapped ! Humm...
Apparently you know very little abut the auto industry. You're talking about the GM EV1, which were test market prototypes , not a full production car. GM never said they were going to mass-produce them. And they didn't "mysteriously" end up scrapped. They were returned to GM after the end of the test-market period and scrapped because that's what almost always happens to prototypes to protect trade secrets. Those cars were destined for the shredder before they were ever even released to the public for testing, and anyone who knows anything about prototype testing knew that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan_K
It's amazing, I follow the auto industry pretty close.
In that case, it's amazing how little you know about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan_K
It is really funny how during the hearings on capital hill, all 3 US auto makers happened to DRIVE ELECTRIC VEHICLES tot eh meetings. Humm.... I guess they must have put those vehicles together overnight ! They've had them for YEARS ! Wonder why it is only NOW that they are coming out of the woodwork. Has somehting to do with money I'm guessing.
Uhm, no, two of them drove hybrids to the Congressional hearings. Alan Mulaly drove an Escape Hybrid which Ford din't have to "put together overnight" because it's been on the market for years already. Rick Wagoner drove in a Chevy Volt prototype which GM didn't have to "put together overnight" because they've been developing this car for the better part of a decade and have very public for several years about their intent to bring it to market by the end of next year. Only Bob Nardelli drove to the hearings in an EV, namely a Jeep Wrangler EV, which Chrysler didn't have to "put together overnight" because they've been developing an EV program for years now. That includes the Wrangler EV which they announced in September (that's two months before the Congressional hearings) will be on the market by 2010. But I'm sure you knew that already, seeing how you follow the industry oh-so-closely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan_K
I bet you think the oil industry is all on the straight and narrow too and has had nothing to do with any of this don't you... Get out of that closet !
One thing they both have in common is to cool the air/fuel mixture which creates more power when it's ignited.
Reread that last statement of mine from my previous post and apply it to yourself as well.
NOS injected as a liquid is vaporized and in so doing removes heat from the surround environment. It's called Latent Heat of Vaporization.
HHO starts out as a liquid (water)at ambient temp,or warmer if under the hood,, via electrolysis is delivered as HHO also at ambient temp,or warmer; and is introduced into the intake induction system, still again at ambient or warmer temps.
Please explain where this mysterious cooling effect you speak of is coming from. With HHO
( You see btw...it comes right back to thermodynamics again...) Mother nature doesn't let you BS your way through things.
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