Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Automotive
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-07-2012, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Whittier
3,004 posts, read 6,275,645 times
Reputation: 3082

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
I don't think most electric power steering systems use ANY pump. They use an electric motor. If it used a pump it would still be a hydraulic system.
My mistake.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-07-2012, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
21,867 posts, read 25,154,836 times
Reputation: 19090
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
I don't think most electric power steering systems use ANY pump. They use an electric motor. If it used a pump it would still be a hydraulic system.
There are a few that use an electric driven pump... it's hydraulic, but it's electric hydraulic rather than belt hydraulic.

I found the EPS in the Mustang to be pretty decent by any account. It's not the absolute best out there, but it beats probably 90-95% of cars out there with hydraulic racks for steering feel. Every other car I've driven with an EPS feels numb. The Passat does a decentish job with the electric rack, but the hydraulic in the 5-cylinder is better than the electric in the V6 or diesel. Other cars its hard to tell... is it really the electric rack in the Sonata that makes it numb or just that it's how the car was designed?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2012, 02:02 PM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,867,563 times
Reputation: 18304
Like any thing new I am not too convinced on electric. But then I also realise that there are many things electric on all todays cars just as important .

Last edited by texdav; 08-07-2012 at 02:20 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2012, 03:11 PM
 
Location: north of Windsor, ON
1,900 posts, read 5,907,128 times
Reputation: 657
I prefer the electric. I like low-effort power steering. I test drove an Aura with electric and it steered a lot nicer than my Aura V6 with hydraulic. The '06 DTS I once rented had electric steering and was a handful on a particular curvy stretch of interstate highway near my house- the wheel kept going back and forth in my hand and felt borderline unsafe at highway speeds. I recently test drove a Lexus CT with electric steering and it was great.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2012, 03:16 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
5,994 posts, read 20,093,452 times
Reputation: 4078
I will add that although I've had short stints in cars with electrical assist that I thought felt good, out of the cars that I've owned and loved from a handling and steering feedback perspective they have all been hydraulic (2011 Hyundai Genesis Coupe, 2007 BMW 530i, 2003 Infiniti G35, 1995 Nissan 300ZX TT).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2012, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Whittier
3,004 posts, read 6,275,645 times
Reputation: 3082
To add, my Civic Si (02) had one of the first EPS units and the feeling was good most of the time. Very boosted at low speeds then very nice planted with no assist at higher speeds. Unfortunately the rack had lubrication problems but that's another story.

Also my current car has a pump, but it's not as sporty as I'd like it. It feels fine, if a bit light otherwise.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2012, 04:08 PM
 
Location: SoCal
1,528 posts, read 4,233,631 times
Reputation: 1243
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
Too much load on the alternator? How much is too much? Is that worse than putting load on the engine? How does one decide which is better or worse?

Maybe only yours makes a high pitched noise. Mine doesn't make any noise.
Lol your post contradicts.. With electric steering you still have load on the engine, but instead of directly putting load on the engine, your placing the load on the alternator which is connected to the engine
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2012, 06:06 PM
 
Location: SoCal
1,528 posts, read 4,233,631 times
Reputation: 1243
Weather you like it or not electric pwr steering is used because its cheaper, that's the sole reason for its use.. It's cheaper then hydraulic pwr steering..

If you want fuel efficiency, then use a manual steering..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2012, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Clear Lake, Houston TX
8,376 posts, read 30,707,657 times
Reputation: 4720
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
Like any thing new I am not too convinced on electric. But then I also realise that there are many things electric on all todays cars just as important .

It may be relatively 'new' but GM has been using it for the past 10 years. The bugs have most likely been worked out.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2012, 11:07 AM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,697,549 times
Reputation: 14622
The systems have been out since the late 1980's, but they are catching on and becoming widespread now for a few reasons:

1. The amount of assist given to the driver can be varied based on a whole host of inputs. This allows the system to be more finely tuned. For instance, giving a lot of assist at low speeds and less at high speeds. It also allows drivers in some cars to select the amount of assist they want. The systems can also be integrated with traction and stability control systems as well to vary sterring assist torque to help drivers make emergency maneuvers.

2. The better packaging makes it easier in terms of manufacturing and maintenance. You eliminate a belt driven accessory, a hydraulic reservoir, a couple of pumps, various hoses and fluids.

3. It is much more efficient in terms of energy usage then a purely hydraulic system. The reason is because the hydraulic system is "always on" and running at the same rate of consumption regardless of load and demand on the power steering system. Additionally, belt driven accessories are inherently less efficient do to the amount of energy lost in the "drag" and length of the belt needed. By eliminating the power steering from the accessory loop, you not only gain that effeciency, but gain efficiency across the board by being able to use a smaller belt.

If you don't believe me on number 3, which it seems some people were questioning...

How Will U.S. Automakers Achieve 54.5 MPG?

Quote:
Electric Power Steering: How can power steering affect a car’s fuel consumption? Like most other components in modern automobiles, power steering systems draw power from the engine to operate the hydraulic mechanisms needed for power steering. In many cases, power steering is a dumb system, meaning it draws power from the engine continuously, whether the system is in use or not. This places a heavy load on engines that requires more fuel consumption. Adding intelligence to the system can yield significant improvements. Most power steering systems today are either purely hydraulic or electronic-hydraulic, which uses an electric motor to pump hydraulic fluid through the system. Electronic-hydraulic systems use only 20 percent of the power that a traditional hydraulic-only system does. Fully electronic power steering dispenses with hydraulics entirely and draws less than 2 percent of the power that a traditional power steering system would. And electronic power steering is on demand, so almost no standby power is required. Electronic power steering can add 10 percent efficiency to each gallon of gas an equipped car consumes. It also reduces engine complexity and simplifies manufacturing.
It only takes about 2 seconds on a Google search to uncover a vast number of articles discussing the effeciency and reason for the adaptations of these systems, many coming straight from the manufacturers and independent testing.

When it comes to feel, I have driven some cars where it was very well done and others that had that "numb" feeling. Overall, it's not the fact that it's electric or not, it's all in the tuning with how the assist is delivered. BMW does a pretty good job with their systems as do many others. It really all comes down to the cars purpose and what the manufacturer thinks the target demogrpahic wants. Most people aren't looking for "heavy" steering in their midsize family sedan or crossover, so the systems are tuned more along the lines of being over boosted. If you spend any time talking to non-enthusiast drivers, most of them are pleasantly surprised at how easy it is to steer a car with electric steering, they actually think it's a positive, while enthusiasts turn around and complain it's numb.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Automotive
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top