Which of these brands do you HATE the most?

[MustangEater82]

I don't hate any. They have their place. I just try to warn people of issues. Everyone flocks on this board seems to be flocking to Hyundai. They in the past have had issues and been unreliable and horrible resale. The problem is, I would still pick one up if the price is right. The thing is, I don't think it is. If the price was lower and it was treated like a throw away car then sure.


Hell my Pontiac G6, I knew it was going to have bad resale, have minor issues, and the interior wouldn't impress many. (I liked the interior just because it was black on black, and always loved Pontiac red displays) I figured it was going to have the resale and reliability of a grand am. I even said that to the dealer when I bought it. I flat out said, I am not paying that much for something that is going to be worth what a 5 year old grand am is worth in 5 years. As I was doing a 5 year loan.

We haggled and argued, I left the dealer numerous times. It stickered $21,800, I got it for $16,500. It became a good deal, and it was mildly loaded, remote start, v6, 30mpg highway, power everything XM radio, 100k warranty.

I was actually never upside down on it. I paid down a little faster at times, but I expected to be upside down on it quickly, and even with Pontiac going under and the big hit on price, I was still on top. If I had pay close to sticker or had less options, my experience might have been a bit different. At the time I was just looking for a point A to B car with a little style. Mazda 6, Fusions, G6. I had looked at a 4 cyl model and even drove both but it was a little slow for my tastes and I was glad my wife talked me out of it, saying I will hate it later. She would have been right. I really understand why some people gave Pontiac and the G6 a bad wrap because the upper level models were really not that much different then my car, but the price tag, started to get up to $28-30k Which I would have been furious if I paid anywhere near that for one. Which I know people did.

I paid it off, early, and car still has a fair amount of life left in it. Plan is to drive it into the ground.

[NJGOAT]

Originally Posted by younglisa7

I do blame the banks but they are not alone in this mess.

GM knows how to build a "good" car by now and they don't. Their choice.

GM knowingly builds junk, they pay out pensions and healthcare to people who no longer work for them sometimes for 40 years that they cannot afford to do, they overpay employees...benefits, bonuses and retirement packages. They are a poorly run company and haven't learned from their mistakes. Sorry....I cannot support them and what they have cost the American people.

Quantify the statement, "GM knowingly builds junk". What do you consider "junk" in their current lineup?

You also have very little concept of how GM and all of the US automakers got into the union mess. They gave away those pensions and benefits at a time when they were making money hand over fist and unions were exerting influence on companies to "take care" of their workers. GM, Ford and Chrysler at one point were almost single-handedly credited with creating the American middleclass as we know it. When times weren't so good, they were continually held over the barrel to keep the benefits and salaries flowing. The biggest benefit of the "bailout" was that these obligations were restructured. These kinds of benefits are also things that none of their competitors have to deal with since universal healthcare exists in Japan, Germany, etc.

Feel free to not buy a car from GM, but do so because it doesn't meet your needs and/or you happen to not like it's price, features, content, etc. Don't refuse to buy it simply based on what is a rather poor understanding of the history of the automotive industry in this country.

[daellis99]

Originally Posted by NJGOAT

Quantify the statement, "GM knowingly builds junk". What do you consider "junk" in their current lineup?

You also have very little concept of how GM and all of the US automakers got into the union mess. They gave away those pensions and benefits at a time when they were making money hand over fist and unions were exerting influence on companies to "take care" of their workers. GM, Ford and Chrysler at one point were almost single-handedly credited with creating the American middleclass as we know it. When times weren't so good, they were continually held over the barrel to keep the benefits and salaries flowing. The biggest benefit of the "bailout" was that these obligations were restructured. These kinds of benefits are also things that none of their competitors have to deal with since universal healthcare exists in Japan, Germany, etc.

Feel free to not buy a car from GM, but do so because it doesn't meet your needs and/or you happen to not like it's price, features, content, etc. Don't refuse to buy it simply based on what is a rather poor understanding of the history of the automotive industry in this country.

I am not a fan of GM but that was well said!!!

[HemiCoupe]

I dislike most of Hondas' and Toyotas' exterior designs. But from what I read or what I've seen on youtube video reviews, at least one model from each brand listed is worth owning IMO.

[ghostrider7811]

Originally Posted by Merc63

We've gone over it before, but GM and Chrysler were "bailed out" due to the BANKING failure. Businesses run on credit, especially large manufacturing businesses. Ford hocked everying INCLUDING the logo that so many are hating on to gain credit when the banking dried up for everyone. GM and Chrysler were unable to do so in time, and the banks stopped lending to EVERYONE, large and small (from major car companies down to small construction companies, and everything in between). Since the loss of so many jobs (not just in the companies themselves, but ALL SUPPORTING BUSINESSES) woudo be huge, it was deemed necessary to step in. Had NOTHING to do with any failures of the companies themselves, and had not Ford got lucky with getting credit before the banks failed entirely, they woudl have been in the same position. GM had already figured out their product was lacking and was turning that around long before the banking meltdown. Chrysler less so, because they went though three different owners. Now, with Fiat ownership, they are a completely different company than when they were owned by Daimler (who simply took a profitable company and sucked all the cash reserves out of it) and Cerberus (who managed to make cars on no cash, but got the comapny profitable enough to have Fiat buy it).

But just so you know, MOST major car comapnies worldwide exist on the bakcing of their respective governments. For example, VW is largely owned by the German government, Toyota and Honda both exist on Japanese government handouts as well. Nissan is part of Renalut and gets money from the French government.

So no, GM and Chrysler didn't screw over the public, nor did they run themselves into the ground (well, Daimler did run Chrysler pretty badly which means the only reason Mercedes succeeded is they stole cash from Chrysler), and they DID learn from their mistakes (GM learned way before the bailout and was on it's way back to the top already, and Fiat has turned Chrysler around quite nicely with a much better mix of product of much better quality. Funny how having money can make that sort of difference).

Simply put, your anger is misplaced. It should be aimed directly at the banks that caused the entire financial meltdown of the late 2000s.

WOW, you said it!!! Good Job.