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Old 12-02-2010, 09:03 AM
 
3,669 posts, read 6,874,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usafracer View Post
What are they in? Aluminum head or iron.
I am guessing aluminum?

It is a 2007 Pontiac G6 2.4L L4 engine. For further information it has less than the recommended 100,000 miles where the manual recommends to change out the spark plugs so they do not have maximum wear. The visible area also appears clean so I don't think they are all gunky either.

They are just so tight to take off I am afraid of breaking them if I exert too much pressure on the socket wrench.

Should I also take them off when the engine is cold? Or is it better taking them off on a warm engine?
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Old 12-02-2010, 09:48 AM
 
6,367 posts, read 16,866,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nativechief View Post
I know PB works well to help free up rusted bolts. As far as spark plugs its best to have the engine at operating temperature when trying to free up a stuck plug because the metal will be expanded and will allow the penetrating oil to saturate to the threads easier.Putting pressure on a cold plug in a cold engine is a sure fire way to snap it off quickly.
Wrong.

If the "metal will be expanded", meaning the metal in the head, don't you think the spark plug will also expand?

Never try to remove a plug from anything but a cold engine, especially if the head is aluminum.
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Old 12-02-2010, 10:21 AM
 
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Thanks, I read that too and was kind of confused because I thought things did expand in the heat thus making it harder to take apart.

I also mentioned there is no visible gunk or grime in that area because maybe heat would help in that situation? In either case it all appears clean.
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Old 12-02-2010, 12:44 PM
 
Location: NewCastle,De.
152 posts, read 651,090 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimme3steps View Post
Wrong.

If the "metal will be expanded", meaning the metal in the head, don't you think the spark plug will also expand?

Never try to remove a plug from anything but a cold engine, especially if the head is aluminum.
Especially an aluminum head. I know that when I remove my plugs in my 04 GTO 5.7 and wify's 95 Mark VIII 4.6 then engine must be cold so I don't guall the threads.

Make sure you apply anti-seize to the new plug's threads.

To answer the op's original question - I prefer PB blaster for it's magnetic quality. I've never used KROIL before but I just might give it a try.
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Old 12-02-2010, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
17,208 posts, read 57,041,396 times
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OP, you don't seem like a very experienced DIY mechanic - what are you using for a socket wrench set?

Provided you use some discretion, you might want to get a 3/8 to 1/2 drive adapter and use a 1/2 inch breaker bar, put one hand on the handle of the breaker bar, the other on the end with the extension, and use "counter torque" to exert a good clean torque. Make damn sure you are going in the correct direction.

Realize that the long breaker bar is so you can generate enough torque to do the job without exerting yourself much, so you maintain excellent control.

When the plug breaks loose, go about 1/8 turn and then take the wrench off, apply the penetrating oil of your choice, and wait say at least 30 minutes.

Use a regular 3/8 ratchet to take the plugs out.

Get some copper type or even nickel based anti-seize compound to put on the new plugs' threads. A little dab will do ya.

If you can bribe a more experienced hand with some beer (*after* the job is done!) to come and supervise you, it might save you some grief. The feel of a sparkplug that has galled and will need special measures to get it out without ruining the head threads is easy for me to detect in real life, but hard to describe in words.

You are doing good to change the plugs before 100K. Leaving plugs in for 100K is asking for them to seize in place.
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Old 12-02-2010, 01:56 PM
 
3,669 posts, read 6,874,074 times
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No, I am not a DIY mechanic in the least bit.

1/2 breaker bar? Counter torque? Sorry but your second to fourth paragraph are Greek to me.

I am using a spark plug socket that has special rubber or plastic inside so it does not break the porcelain of the spark plug: 5/8" x 6" Magnetic Swivel Spark Plug Socket by Gear Wrench (http://tinyurl.com/28v6r45 - broken link)

Connected to that is a regular socket wrench and an extension bar as pointed in the red arrrows below:



I did look up a breaker bar and I don't have one of those :/

I was going to use the following for the new spark plugs but I suppose I will need to get the gray packet which is anti-seize.



I don't know anyone to bribe but thanks for your help. I doubt it has galled, they have never been messed with, look clean, I just was afraid of exerting too much pressure. Maybe I will find a steel bar that is hollow which I can connect to my regular socket wrench to gain that extra torque.
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Old 12-02-2010, 02:17 PM
 
19,023 posts, read 25,955,711 times
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The big IF is getting them turned out 1/8th turn.

I use heated methods which worked better IMO. I have seen my fair share of plugs snap off cold. They gag up on the carbon layer at the starter thread. Things are a little softer hot.

I like a bit more than a dab of anti seized going in too, a good solid coating of all the threads. Not big and lumpy, but well filled threads.

I also use a like plug wire plug holder, to start these plug threads, and if the engine is a first time anti seized threaded engine i wind the plug in and out several times to get anti seize on the head side threads.

I live in Salt hell, were even in summer salt is used to keep road dust down and it gets everywhere.

On any older car around here you can pull off the kick panels inside under the dash and find all sorts of dusty crud and salt corrosions.

I use kroil too. In lieu of that my next choice is dextron ATF one to one with acetone, No flames, no smoking. You makee big Boom!

IMO the plugs are a steel core and in heat swell up bigger. The alloy head will grow bigger hot too, but not be clamped down tight as it is cold. In my personal experience heat and lots of it always works. On really rusted things not yet broken, maybe not having any wrench really fit anymore, heat will save the day. There ratio of steel to alloy is different in the same heat, so there is a larger opening than the steel can fill.

This past summer i did up work on the most rusty truck so far i have ever worked on. With white hot heated bolt heads i forged wrenchs on these bolts kind of forming new heads.

It took a long time to pull very few bolts but none broke, and once i could hold on to them they all came out. On that truck the only bolt i didn't bother with was the rear end oil filler which used to have a 3/8th inch drive square hole. The hole was ovaled and almost round, and I saw no point.

I just machined a new fitting and welded that on the punkin cover in the right height, and used a new plug in that.

Maybe over 3 or more days you can use kriol or the home nmade version and run the engine till it begins to feel warm, almost hot, and then shut the engine off. The heating, but not to the point of burning off the oil, with cooling should assist in moving metals so the oil can flow.

It will be a critical error to work overly fast.

Another aid if you have access to air is to use a air ratchet set lower than full torque to vibrate NOT Turn the plugs. What mmakes this all almost worthless is the plugs are sealed, where as not that much else is. This can be a real big problem if you loose your patience and work it too fast.

Then the good side of that besides lots of new gaskets and parts will be messing around with YOUR NEW EZ outs, and probably a helicoil set.
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Old 12-02-2010, 02:19 PM
 
19,023 posts, read 25,955,711 times
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1/2 Inch Drive Breaker Bar... stepped down to be 3/8inch drive. You simply mis read what was ment.
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Old 12-02-2010, 02:22 PM
 
3,071 posts, read 9,135,150 times
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After reading all about this complicated issue I think the OP needs to take the car to the dealer and pay the several hundred dollars they will charge..lol
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Old 12-02-2010, 02:30 PM
 
19,023 posts, read 25,955,711 times
Reputation: 7365
A steel bar that is hollow is a hunk of pipe, and that won't do the ratchet a bit of good. It works better on a breaker bar.

All mechanics are DIY ers even the pro techs. Some are a little more creative than others is all the difference. I am no pro anymore but I used to be, and it doesn't seem that trying quit made me forget much, so it means i am out of date.
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