$59 Billion Plan For Region Could Improve Intown ATL (Atlanta, Dallas: maintenance, taxes)

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by arjay57

We don't spend $8,000 a day operating the typical 2.7 mile stretch of road.

A lot of our streets get almost zero attention, even though they move 20-50,000 people a day.

Not at all true.

How much are we collecting to help pay for that road upkeep again? $0

We put way more money into roads in this state, when transit is the cheaper way to travel and mostly pays for itself. Collect enough user fees from drivers (And not my tax bill) to pay for roads then we will talk.

Maybe one day we can get the cost of the streetcar down to the $49,375 per mile (Or $133,312.50 for 2.7 miles) highways cost to maintain. International Right of Way Association Top Ten Infrastructure Projects Countdown « Site-K Construction Zone

[arjay57]

I can tell you for a fact that the government hasn't done any upkeep on most of the roads in my area for years.

We could work wonders with the $15 million they are allocating to operate the 2.7 miles streetcar for a few years, not to mention the $100 million spent to build it.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by arjay57

I can tell you for a fact that the government hasn't done any upkeep on most of the roads in my area for years.

Can you now? Then you won't mind if we fund them with 100% user fees, right? Since it will stay basically free because there is no spending on them, right?

And since you seem to be able to undercut all these paving companies out there, why don't you go start a business since no one else is able to do roads as cheap as you?

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by arjay57

We don't spend $8,000 a day operating the typical 2.7 mile stretch of road.

A lot of our streets get almost zero attention, even though they move 20-50,000 people a day.

Don't forget, numerous businesses have opened up along the route, solely due to the streetcar. I have no doubt that the increased tax revenue from those businesses will far exceed the operating costs of the streetcar.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Can you now?

Yes, I sure can. I suppose it's possible that somebody is coming out there in the middle of the night and silently doing maintenance work and then carefully returning everything to its exact condition before daylight but that doesn't seem likely.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by MattCW

Don't forget, numerous businesses have opened up along the route, solely due to the streetcar. I have no doubt that the increased tax revenue from those businesses will far exceed the operating costs of the streetcar.

If the streetcar pays for itself that's great. But if it is, why are they allocating another $15 million to operate it?

Businesses open all along the roads near me and people build houses and pay taxes. Yet the city government doesn't make any special allocation to operate them. They rarely do any maintenance on them at all.

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by arjay57

If the streetcar pays for itself that's great. But if it is, why are they allocating another $15 million to operate it?

Because the "profit" won't come from the fares and has to be allocated from where it actually originates.

Businesses open all along the roads near me and people build houses and pay taxes. Yet the city government doesn't make any special allocation to operate them.

Yes they do, it's called the road budget. Whoever is responsible for the roads (city, county, state) makes that "special" allocation.

They rarely do any maintenance on them at all.

Because local roads usually very little ongoing operating costs and activities. The road in front of my house was paved in 1974, then again about 4 years ago. That's all it needed, but there still had to be an allocation somewhere to pay for that.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by MattCW

Because local roads usually very little ongoing operating costs and activities. The road in front of my house was paved in 1974, then again about 4 years ago. That's all it needed, but there still had to be an allocation somewhere to pay for that.

That's the point. Many local roads move thousands, and even tens of thousands of people every day. Yet they don't get any allocation for operation or maintenance.

I'm in favor of the streetcar but there needs to be some equity regarding who and how much we pay for it.

In the case of the streetcar, the city is proposing to allocate $1 million a year per mile for operation and maintenance. How about allocating even 10% of that for the operation and maintenance of our roads?

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by arjay57

That's the point. Many local roads move thousands, and even tens of thousands of people every day. Yet they don't get any allocation for operation or maintenance.

Then those are more local thoroughfares than just roads and probably receive an actual ongoing maintenance allocation.

I'm in favor of the streetcar but there needs to be some equity regarding who and how much we pay for it.

Then let's make sure to apply the same thinking to roads. I am certain the streetcar will come out on top in that case.

In the case of the streetcar, the city is proposing to allocate $1 million a year per mile for operation and maintenance. How about allocating even 10% of that for the operation and maintenance of our roads?

What do you propose they do to the roads? Most road infrastructure is "lay and forget" requiring only the occasional filling of potholes now and again plus traffic light maintenance, but the overall capacity is far less than for the streetcar, so any increase in traffic requires a disproportionate increase in funding in order to make the upgrades. The streetcar can be upgraded by simply adding another train car, or reducing the headways which incurs minimal increase in costs.

[jsvh]

You got to give up trying to compare the streetcar to roads on "profitability" because roads are currently bringing in $0.

I say make them both 100% user funded. Drivers should be paying for roads like riders pay for transit.