Charter Schools Vote (Atlanta: buy, construction, public schools)

[tonygeorgia]

Are you voting YES or NO?

[atltechdude]

I'm voting yes.

It seems to me that the main people against this are the local school boards. If they were doing such a great job, why would the parents want more options?

I think competition can be a good thing, and if the local school boards have gotten too complacent and really fear competition so much, that seems to say something about them.

I do understand the argument that it may take away some money from traditional public schools, but I just also think that if something is broken, throwing more money at it will not necessarily fix it. And there have been examples of successful charter schools operating with much lower money than regular schools. If that's what the parents want, they should have that choice imo.

[AcidSnake]

I am voting "no"...or should I say I have voted "no".

Charter schools are no panacea for solving the education problems in this country, let alone in Georgia. And there are many examples where charter schools produced not much of a noticeable difference in the test scores of children.

And most significantly, this new State Charter Commission if constitutionally ratified, will be an unelected agency and answerable to no one but potentially the Governor. Bad idea in my opinion, given the lousy track record of the state political leadership in managing the affairs of Georgia in modern times.

I find it telling that there are states out there like Vermont, who rather than do the piecemeal "every man for himself" approach to education reform, have actually chosen to improve their entire system with great results...rather than even countenance the thought of a charter school. The incredible confidence Vermont has in its statewide education system is such that its leaders have chosen to forsake this nonsensical and ill-advised "competition is God" ideology that the charter school system and the federal "Race to the Top" program would force onto them.

But of course, our hubba-bubba state can't or won't even take off the horse blinders to see what other states like Vermont are doing in the area of education transformation. And they certainly won't see how those lessons can be best applied to Georgia's situation.

So we average citizens are forced to endure this everlasting hamster cage of non-reform imposed on us by a corporate media that refuses to look at all of the angles, wealthy conservatives & their thinktank foundations like ALEC who are able to take advantage of the information void and buy off a lot of influential people pivotal to the vote, and finally a collection of suburban & rural politicians who have no real desire to make government work for everyone...only for the well-off and politically-connected.

Oh yeah, did I say I have voted "no"?

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by AcidSnake

I am voting "no".

Charter schools are no panacea for solving the education problem in this country, let alone in Georgia. And there are many examples where charter schools produced not much of a noticeable difference in the test scores of children.

If the results are better or no worse, then I'd take the chance and go with Charter.

And most significantly, this State Charter Commission will be an unelected agency and answerable to no one but potentially the Governor. Bad idea, given the lousy track record of the state political leadership in managing the affairs of Georgia in modern times.

The State Charter Commission sounds like it will work like our BOR. Maybe removing politics and union influence would help our schools. Our university and technical college system are burdened by unprepared students to whom post-secondary schools have to finally give the education the students should have had in high school.

I find it telling that there are states out there like Vermont, who rather than do the piecemeal "every man for himself" approach to education reform, have actually chosen to improve their entire system with great results...rather than even countenance the thought of a charter school. The incredible confidence Vermont has in its statewide education system is such that its leaders have chosen to forsake this nonsensical and ill-advised "competition is God" approach that the charter school system and the federal "Race to the Top" program would force onto them.

But of course, our hubba-bubba state can't or won't even take off the horse blinders to see what other states like Vermont are doing in the area of education transformation and how those lessons can be best applied to Georgia.

So we average citizens are force to endure this hamster cage of non-reform imposed on us by a corporate media that refuses to look at all of the angles, wealthy conservatives & their thinktank foundations like ALEC who are able to take advantage of the information void and buy off a lot of influential people pivotal to the vote, and finally a collection of suburban & rural politicians who have no real desire to make government work for everyone.

Maybe, but Vermont is around 98% white. In Georgia we are 60% white 30% black, 10% other. You'd think education is straight forward but there are cultural issues as to content and style of teaching. On top of that there is resistance to academic success as being "white" within the young black community. I'd feel better about an alternative approach if it was shown to work across cultures. I don't have a problem with the competitive nature of the Charter system because...sorry kids...that is the nature of the real world. Is there something that summarizes the Vermont philosophy...other than "improving the entire system"? That doesn't say much to me other than throw more money at the problem by hiring more teachers and paying them more.

[AcidSnake]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

Maybe, but Vermont is around 98% white. In Georgia we are 60% white 30% black, 10% other. You'd think education is straight forward but there are cultural issues as to content and style of teaching. On top of that there is resistance to academic success as being "white" within the young black community. I'd feel better about an alternative approach if it was shown to work across cultures. I don't have a problem with the competitive nature of the Charter system because...sorry kids...that is the nature of the real world. Is there something that summarizes the Vermont philosophy...other than "improving the entire system"? That doesn't say much to me other than throw more money at the problem by hiring more teachers and paying them more.

Bullocks on the homogenous excuse, I'd say.

Why do you conservative-leaning types keep throwing that nonsense out there I will never understand. The KIPP Academies have disabuse this silly notion that inner-city children of color won't learn to the same effect as their other ethnic peers.

In reality, I would say that the only real role that race that may have in preventing reform here in Georgia is because far too many southern-born white & black Georgians than not are acculturated & socialized to not truly working with each other...politically & as well as socially. Which is due to Georgia and the south's less than stellar past & recent history with regards to race relations.

When enough baby boomers and older generations leave this mortal plane of existence and the later generations are able to take the reigns of political & economic power in whole, hopefully there will be more open-minds to finding ways to honestly reform education in Georgia.

[atltechdude]

Originally Posted by AcidSnake

Bullocks on the homogenous excuse, I'd say.

Why do you conservative-leaning types keep throwing that nonsense out there I will never understand. The KIPP Academies have disabuse this silly notion that inner-city children of color won't learn to the same effect as their other ethnic peers.

In reality, I would say that the only real role that race that may have in preventing reform here in Georgia is because far too many southern-born white & black Georgians than not are acculturated & socialized to not truly working with each other...politically & as well as socially. Which is due to Georgia and the south's less than stellar past & recent history with regards to race relations.

When enough baby boomers and older generations leave this mortal plane of existence and the later generations are able to take the reigns of political & economic power in whole, hopefully there will be more open-minds to finding ways to honestly reform education in Georgia.

honestly I think this issue is bit more complex than you are making it.

I am a liberal young person, but I'm voting yes.

[RoslynHolcomb]

I'm voting no. If charter schools are so effing great, why not make them all charter. Years ago I used to watch on tv in Birmingham as parents camped out sometimes for days in order to enroll their kids in a special school. I thought at the time, and still think. If we know how to make one school great, why not make them all great? IMO corporatizing education is not the answer. Now if they ever get around to getting an amendment to allow cities to form their own school systems, I'm all aboard. But ALEC backed legislation? No way.

[AcidSnake]

There are complexities to be sure, I'll give you that much.

But in my opinion, those complexities stem only from the political & social realities that have plagued Georgia off and on since the end of the Reconstruction era.

If people would only open their minds a little bit, a whole lot can be done. I only wish that the successful but fragile multiracial coalition of political, business, & community leadership that were able to steer Atlanta from the chaos of the Civil Rights era up until around end of the 1990s was still in control.

So much was accomplished in that brief time span.

Originally Posted by atltechdude

honestly I think this issue is bit more complex than you are making it.

I am a liberal young person, but I'm voting yes.

[atltechdude]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

I'm voting no. If charter schools are so effing great, why not make them all charter. Years ago I used to watch on tv in Birmingham as parents camped out sometimes for days in order to enroll their kids in a special school. I thought at the time, and still think. If we know how to make one school great, why not make them all great? IMO corporatizing education is not the answer. Now if they ever get around to getting an amendment to allow cities to form their own school systems, I'm all aboard. But ALEC backed legislation? No way.

Making them all charter puts you right back in the situation we have now. If there is only one system and one choice, people get complacent and let inefficiencies and waste fester without addressing and fixing problems, because there is no competition and no motivation to fix things if you are going to get paid regardless.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

I'm voting no. If charter schools are so effing great, why not make them all charter. Years ago I used to watch on tv in Birmingham as parents camped out sometimes for days in order to enroll their kids in a special school. I thought at the time, and still think. If we know how to make one school great, why not make them all great? IMO corporatizing education is not the answer. Now if they ever get around to getting an amendment to allow cities to form their own school systems, I'm all aboard. But ALEC backed legislation? No way.

Check out "Waiting for Superman". A documentary about our school systems.

Libraries with a copy
1. Georgia State University
DVD video

2.Atlanta-Fulton Public Library System
DVD video

3.Georgia Institute of Technology
DVD video

4.Robert W. Woodruff Library of the Atlanta University Center, Inc.
DVD video

5.Atlanta Metropolitan State College
DVD video

6.Emory University
Robert W. Woodruff Library
DVD video

The teacher's unions will not accept reform...just more money. And why aren't there more Charter Schools? Because of opposition to it like we see now.