Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Oh no. Not this type of comment again. This situation is waaaay beyond "race card".
Why is it that every time conversations on true reform happens, people are always trying to find ways to take some of the cards off the table? Everything should be discussed, in all of its brutal truth & brutal honest. No "card" should be left unturned, not even the so-called "race-card".
You should try thinking outside the box, instead of this flawed thinking inside the box. Get out of this hyper-partisan thinking that you have taught & socialized into thinking.
If you even as so much as paid attention to even half of what I posted in this whole thread by far, you would've quickly realize that I casted blame on ALL leadership for their inertia and unwillingness to solve education problems in Georgia, whether they be at DCSS or the entire state.
But you didn't really read what I said, did you? You only saw what you wanted to see & predictably casted a quick uninformed judgement from then on. Truly disappointing, I'd say.
And that situation is what greatly troubles and saddens me. We Atlantans, Georgians, and Americans will never be to truly take on issues like education & transportation as long we allow our history, identity politics, and culture wars to blind us, bind us, & slow us down from even starting on the road to true reform in the first place.
Please do not take what I say personal. My greatest apologies if I have offended you. I simply want our state to truly become a force for excellence.
And as always, it's just my humble opinion, of course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 feet tall
Wow. Time to play the race card already, eh?
Last edited by AcidSnake; 10-12-2012 at 04:24 AM..
I don't know enough about Finland or Finland's program to comment intelligently on it. I think I read one article in the Smithsonian and heard one story on npr. I do know thatatone point they had one of the worst school systems in Europe. I also understand their attitude about teachers is totally different from ours. That change seems to be a crucial component of their system, and I'm not sure that can be changed.
As for homogeneity, cultural differences, etc... I actually see that as a plus. I think that when all is said and done most parents want what is best for their children. Would we have to work harder on buy in than the Finns. I'm guessing the answer is yes, but I don't think anything should be dismissed out of hand.
I remember years ago when it was observed that Japanese car manufacturers were eating our lunch. Observers noted that the culture there was radically different from ours, yet we adapted some of it anyway. I'm sure that's not the first time that was done either. Companies adopt ideas from one another all the time. My guess is that it's human nature to want to try something new when you see someone ellse doing it better. Without this instinct we'd still be living in caves painting ourselves blue.
I believe the Finnish model could work here.i also think we would be wise to adopt the German apprenticeship model. After all we have considerable infrastructure in place between technical schools and training programs like Job Corps we have the resources to develop those young people who are interested in the trades.funnel them in that direction in ninth grade and watch the drop out rate decline.
In the 2010-2011, there were 523 5th graders in the schools that feed into Peachtree Middle School. The following year (last year), there were 480 6th graders. That is hardly 50 percent.
Let me add, that there may very well be 50 percent of students in private schools, but my point is that they weren't in public school to start with. Like many parts of close in North Metro Atlanta, Dunwoody and others part of N. DeKalb have tremendous access to private schools. Many families actually buy homes because of proximity to private schools, knowing they will never go public.
I know a few families like this at my children's private schools who bought specifically in Dunwoody because of the proximity to work locations and private schools. One father said DeKalb schools were a plus because they were able to get a better deal on the house!
Actually, I checked and the author is just guessing. He doesn't have hard facts. In fact, the numbers tell a different story, when you total the number of 5th graders from one year to 6th the next (and no Peachtree doesn't get students from outside its attendance zone.) Same thing, 8th to 9th, though a little harder to track because the high school, until recently, does occasionally have some transfer students.
The reality now is that the problems in DCSS are trickling into all schools across the system, including the "amazing" ones. Class sizes are out of control, many good teachers have left or will leave soon, and morale is at an all time low.
The situation in DeKalb County as a whole is terrible and the school system is just a part of this. As someone posted in another thread, there are parts of S. DeKalb where homes are now selling for less than they did 30 years ago. It is hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Yeah I did, I have purchased a few of the properties. The ones below I did not purchase but looked at:
-One listing in S. DeKalb(Smokerise) I looked at was 1984- 245k, 1999- 345k, and sold 2012 210k. It was a well built house it needed cosmetic updates, but it was still in good shape for its age.
-Another sold for 114k at the end of 2011(sold 410k) than the last time it sold in 1992. Great condition, only minor interior cosmetics.
-Another listing 1982- 350k, 1986- 290k, 1993- 339k, 2007- 565k, 2010- 305k(to bank), 2011- 330k. So maybe the bank made a bit on it. It was a very unique house from the 1970's, I believe the renovations happened in the 90's. It was an amazing house but too unique for a rental eventual flip. I actually saved the pictures from it because I thought it was so unique.
I bought a rental for about 50k less than it sold in 1980/81. It needed work but not bad for age. There are a few others I have purchased that have been foreclosed multiple times in recent years.
I am just about sick and tired of this "homogenous" crap and "language gap" excuses. Guess what? My old alma mater, Ronald E. McNair High School...is darn near over 95% black...BLACK. The primary language? English. Not ebonics...ENGLISH.
Heck, half of doggone Dekalb County below I-20 is homogeneously BLACK and speaks homogenous ENGLISH. There is no reason why a consistent education reform program based in part or whole off of Finland's system CANT WORK IN SOUTH DEKALB.
No reason, WHAT-SO-EVER.
In fact...the only real obstacle is a bunch of typical southern power-trippin' oldheads who are stuck on this amorphous neo-liberal thought process that demands that competition is everything, free-market is god, and to heck with investing in children who don't look like me.
It's that typical old world plantation owner/money changer type of mentality that this country just can't seem to shake itself loose from, especially in the south.
THAT'S WHAT IS STOPPING TRUE SCHOOL REFORM!!!
Please stop with that "homogenous", "cultural", "language gap" stuff when it comes to looking outside Georgia for education reform, because this excuse is so old and overly done to death. This logic has no basis in reality when looking at the true picture from an open perspective. It's time to tell the truth and shame the doggone devil!
It's time for us Georgians, Atlantans, and Americans to start opening our hearts and minds, leave the ego at the door, ask our fellow allies overseas to come over and help us save our kids from poverty-ladened ignorance already. This action already should have been done...yesterday!
Oh no. Not this type of comment again. This situation is waaaay beyond "race card".
Why is it that every time conversations on true reform happens, people are always trying to find ways to take some of the cards off the table? Everything should be discussed, in all of its brutal truth & brutal honest. No "card" should be left unturned, not even the so-called "race-card".
You should try thinking outside the box, instead of this flawed thinking inside the box. Get out of this hyper-partisan thinking that you have taught & socialized into thinking.
If you even as so much as paid attention to even half of what I posted in this whole thread by far, you would've quickly realize that I casted blame on ALL leadership for their inertia and unwillingness to solve education problems in Georgia, whether they be at DCSS or the entire state.
But you didn't really read what I said, did you? You only saw what you wanted to see & predictably casted a quick uninformed judgement from then on. Truly disappointing, I'd say.
And that situation is what greatly troubles and saddens me. We Atlantans, Georgians, and Americans will never be to truly take on issues like education & transportation as long we allow our history, identity politics, and culture wars to blind us, bind us, & slow us down from even starting on the road to true reform in the first place.
Please do not take what I say personal. My greatest apologies if I have offended you. I simply want our state to truly become a force for excellence.
And as always, it's just my humble opinion, of course.
I am just about sick and tired of this "homogenous" crap and "language gap" excuses. Guess what? My old alma mater, Ronald E. McNair High School...is darn near over 95% black...BLACK. The primary language? English. Not ebonics...ENGLISH.
Heck, half of doggone Dekalb County below I-20 is homogeneously BLACK and speaks homogenous ENGLISH. There is no reason why a consistent education reform program based in part or whole off of Finland's system CANT WORK IN SOUTH DEKALB.
No reason, WHAT-SO-EVER.
In fact...the only real obstacle is a bunch of typical southern power-trippin' oldheads who are stuck on this amorphous neo-liberal thought process that demands that competition is everything, free-market is god, and to heck with investing in children who don't look like me.
It's that typical old world plantation owner/money changer type of mentality that this country just can't seem to shake itself loose from, especially in the south.
THAT'S WHAT IS STOPPING TRUE SCHOOL REFORM!!!!
What sort of problems is McNair having? Are you thinking that going to a non-competitive model is the sort of reform that will lift it up?
I know a couple of folks who went there back when it was Walker and while it may not have been the ultimate in exclusivity it was known as a solid middle-class school.
I am a supporter of charter schools if they are done right. I think too many administrators and school systems, especially here in metro Atlanta are failing children in a plethora of ways and it doesn't hurt to put public schools back into the hands of the community.
My kid goes a charter and I love our school. I think it should be a model for the rest of APS, the district we live in. Our population is primarily black but we do have some diversity and the lower grades - kindergarten, and 1st (it is only a K-5 school now slated to go to K-8 in the future) have more diversity so I am excited that my daughter (we are black) when she goes to K in a couple years will be in a more diverse environment than my son. I only know of 2 white kids in his whole grade.
They basically teach a child where they are at in lower grades an expect them to get at least an 80% in core subjects and if the child doesn't they have to keep repeating that lesson until they do. Very simple IMO and very effective since it ensures that a child is actually learning the material.
We have very small class sizes of 6-8 students for 4 days a week and a max of 24 one day per week for specials.
I agree with the above poster that we need to look outside of the box. I also don't think that charters are demon schools, which a lot of people in my area like to spout because they feel we should pour our resources into public schools. I live on the Westside and if my kid wasn't in the charter he'd go to Bethune, then Kennedy (it is closing this year so probably Brown) then Washington. I am not impressed with either of those schools, including Brown and would not send my kid to any of them. Most of the kids around here go to charters, most notably in middle school, which is why Kennedy is closing, due to the KIPP schools, who are VERY successful.
In regards to black students it has been shown that black American kids do better in charter schools versus traditional public schools. KIPP I know is focused on college and prep high schools. Many of their students get full rides to boarding or elite private high schools, so I don't see any sort of excuses in regards to black students. I really don't even see excuses with hispanic students because like a PP mentioned, even if they are ESL students, if approached and taught with the correct methods and resources, those children can excel, especially when they are younger and more able to become bilingual at a faster pace.
I do feel though that it is a good idea to have some oversight of charters. I would propose an audit of them by the school district every other year. But charters are more community focused and since here in GA they must follow the professional standards and are not excluded from standardized testing, I don't feel that they are really all that much different from traditional schools, except they have the capability to develop their own educational methods that can more readily address the needs of their student body.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
