Job Growth in Gwinnett and North Fulton (Suwanee: live in, restaurants)
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Coffee, what area in Duluth are you saying is going down hill? South of 120 / north of 120 or the entire city in general? Why do you think that Duluth is getting worse and worse by the day?
For those of us who have lived in the county a long time .... Gwinnett Place Mall 20 years ago had the newness and excitement of the growth the Mall of Georgia has today.
Simons Malls built 3 malls in close proximity to each other in Gwinnnett County, which created too much retail sq. footage for this area. It made the older properties go down hill, which lowered rents and decreased property maintenance. This then has a negative affect on all of the neighboring areas.
There is also a newness Bias in suburban sunbelt cities. If something is new it is nice and exciting. If it is old it has gone down hill and is bad. This will change over time.
This is just now starting to change with more niche stores starting to move in (like MegaMart) being the first step.
Now to be fair... This is an unincorporated area between Duluth and Lilburn, but for most people it is the public face of the Duluth zip code, because it is where most Gwinnettians use to go to shop.
I also want to spot out that the Gwinnett Place Mall area has the most public investment in infrastructure and accessibility. Over time as undeveloped land becomes rare the area will probably become a high-demand area with more attention to redevelopment and have a positive affect on all of the neighboring areas.
Coffee, thanks for the info. I didn't know it was that bad. I may be wrong, but i just don't see the area where TPC Sugarloaf is sitting going downhill which sits right north of 120 in Duluth.
I do notice many white families moving out of Duluth subdivisions and moving up north while many Korean families are moving in. The gang situation may be a serious problem. I am assuming you are talking about southern part of Duluth close to Pleasant Hill/Berkeley Lake right near where Gwinnett Place Mall sits?
For those of us who have lived in the county a long time .... Gwinnett Place Mall 20 years ago had the newness and excitement of the growth the Mall of Georgia has today.
Simons Malls built 3 malls in close proximity to each other in Gwinnnett County, which created too much retail sq. footage for this area. It made the older properties go down hill, which lowered rents and decreased property maintenance. This then has a negative affect on all of the neighboring areas.
There is also a newness Bias in suburban sunbelt cities. If something is new it is nice and exciting. If it is old it has gone down hill and is bad. This will change over time.
This is just now starting to change with more niche stores starting to move in (like MegaMart) being the first step.
Now to be fair... This is an unincorporated area between Duluth and Lilburn, but for most people it is the public face of the Duluth zip code, because it is where most Gwinnettians use to go to shop.
I also want to spot out that the Gwinnett Place Mall area has the most public investment in infrastructure and accessibility. Over time as undeveloped land becomes rare the area will probably become a high-demand area with more attention to redevelopment and have a positive affect on all of the neighboring areas.
cwkimbro,
What was the Duluth area like 20 years ago? Was the area predominately white and affluent? I agree with your statement about Gwinnett Place Mall. There is a lot of korean money invested in the area for infrastructure and accessibility. I can totally see the old "not so nice area" going down and new building going up in that area. MegaMart's grand opening was a big disappointment, but this is just the beginning, as more niche stores moving into the area will make Gwinnett a very unique and interesting place to live.
I'm between Pleasant Hill and Beaver Ruin Road. The gang situation is a serious problem. The problems in my area are not contained. They will spread. The days of "Gwinnett is Great" are gone.
What was the Duluth area like 20 years ago? Was the area predominately white and affluent?
Yes, in the 80s and 90s Duluth saw the growth and excitement Suwanee sees today easily.
The only thing is the buildings of the area matched the cultural norms of the 90s. (Smaller houses than today's, but larger than ranch houses of the 70s).
The apartment complexes were new and considered nice and there weren't as many. They had fewer long-term families with children living in them compared to today. I think the single family neighborhoods are partly affected by residents not wanting their kids to go to school with families living in apartments, which lowers the demand. But, the houses and neighborhoods themselves are nice.
And before that... Norcross/Jimmy Carter was an up and coming area (albeit that is a little before my time). As ugly as this area is (look at Arjays map) there is still a concentration of high paying jobs thanks to good access to a well connected industrial district and Peachtree Corners/Technology Park business areas.
Growth keeps lead frogging further out of the city until there is a demand (and money put down) on renewal of older properties/areas. (This is kind of a lasting/left over effects from an era of white flight during the 50s and 60s that was so prominent in Dekalb Co.)
I live and grew up south of Lilburn. We have kind of seen the same thing here... Lilburn then Snelleville and then Grayson. The major benefit we have here is there are few apartments and fewer retail buildings. Most people just want a quiet place with a workable drive to Downtown/Midtown.
What was the Duluth area like 20 years ago? Was the area predominately white and affluent? I agree with your statement about Gwinnett Place Mall. There is a lot of korean money invested in the area for infrastructure and accessibility. I can totally see the old "not so nice area" going down and new building going up in that area. MegaMart's grand opening was a big disappointment, but this is just the beginning, as more niche stores moving into the area will make Gwinnett a very unique and interesting place to live.
20 years ago Gwinnett County was 90% white, however, it was less than half the size it is now. Before Gwinnett Place was built, there was absolutely nothing there. However, while it may have essentially all white, it was never affluent. It has always been solidly middle class, and still is. Now, however, the middle class in the area are mixed with ethnicities. The single family neighborhoods surrounding the mall are still quite nice, well maintained, and desirable; Cardinal Lake comes to mind.
Perhaps it is getting better in terms of jobs, but living here is getting worse and worse. There was a month last fall where we had something like 10k houses on the market and 3 sales. I've often said that they had to tear down the "Gwinnett is Great" and "Success Lives Here" water towers because they were being sued for false advertising.
The only area where I'd still want to live is Suwanee, and even it is on a downward trajectory. Duluth is getting worse and worse by the day. Been to Gwinnett Place lately?
Why exactly is Suwanee on the downward trajectory?
I'm sorry that you bought a house in a less than desirable area. However, many many people live in Gwinnett, and are more than happy with the experience. I live in a great neighborhood, next to a park, across the street from a library, with excellent schools, and amazing, fun neighbors, with very very little crime. Please don't generalize an entire county of over 800k people because you're unhappy with your situation. Gwinnett is not on the downhill trajectory.
Also, here is a link to your neighborhood with the crime statistics....I would hardly call it Compton...
I have been on the fence about it with the schools. I know the Peachtree Ridge cluster is supposed to be good but when I compare the great schools ratings of the elementary school M.H. can't remember the rest vs. Sharon or Johns Creek it doesn't score well. Do you guys all think we should stick to S. Forsyth/N. Fulton (Laurel Springs, St. Ives and yes, Mr. Panda, even St. MArlo) and not even consider Sugarloaf?
Up in Buffalo, we don't have big swings in home prices. We never went up huge so it hasn't come down much either. But, I know what happened down there. And, if we can buy in at the low and actually make a few hundred thousand in 10-15 yrs I'm all for it. Mr. Panda suggested that if I was buying a home at the 600-700K range, it might be smart to look into Sugarloaf as something at that price now, was easily 1.1 million or higher back in the hay day which I have found now that I am looking into that area. Laurel Springs doesn't seem to have had such a huge swing which, to me, means it is pretty stable and desirable but if I really want a big bang for my buck, what is everyone's thoughts? My husband is commuting into NE Duluth so Sugarloaf would definitely be closer to his work than Laurel Springs. Even St. Ives would be closer but they don't have much new inventory (same with CCS). New, as in newer homes (2000 and up), not new homes on the market.
just wondering what everyone's thoughts are on this subject.
Thanks
If you have 600-700k to spend on a home, you don't want to spend it in Gwinnett. In fact, you probably should not spend it ANYWHERE in metro Atlanta until you have spent at least three years here. Atlanta is great, but where you live has a huge impact on your quality of life. There are plenty of rentals. Put whatever money you were going to put down on a house in the bank or a mutual fund instead. Gwinnett has not come close to the bottom of the market. Once we hit bottom, it will be many years before we see prices increase. Keep your money. Rent. Take it all in. If you still like it in three years, then buy.
Why exactly is Suwanee on the downward trajectory?
I used to take my son to play in the fountains in front of Suwanee city hall. I stopped taking him because every time I went, there would be some parent letting all ten of their kids run around naked or else wearing a diaper filled with poop. That kid with the poop filled diaper would then go into the fountains and contaminate the entire thing with feces. That didn't happen when I first moved here, but it happens all the time now- enough so that I quit going.
Of course, this is just anecdotal. But, I want to know what makes you think that the problems in Southern Gwinnett won't continue to move northward? The area where I live was considered very desirable ten years ago. People thought that the problems in North DeKalb would never move into Gwinnett. Now you are saying that the problems I see are only in my area. Personally, I see no reason why Discover Mills won't be like Gwinnett Place in ten years. It's all about trends.
I used to take my son to play in the fountains in front of Suwanee city hall. I stopped taking him because every time I went, there would be some parent letting all ten of their kids run around naked or else wearing a diaper filled with poop. That kid with the poop filled diaper would then go into the fountains and contaminate the entire thing with feces. That didn't happen when I first moved here, but it happens all the time now- enough so that I quit going.
Of course, this is just anecdotal. But, I want to know what makes you think that the problems in Southern Gwinnett won't continue to move northward? The area where I live was considered very desirable ten years ago. People thought that the problems in North DeKalb would never move into Gwinnett. Now you are saying that the problems I see are only in my area. Personally, I see no reason why Discover Mills won't be like Gwinnett Place in ten years. It's all about trends.
So essentially you don't have anything to back up your statement about Suwanee?
If you live where you told me, that is Berkmar High area. 10 years ago it wasn't a very desirable area. It's never been that nice. It's never been that bad either. It's always been very middle class to slightly lower middle class. It's hard for any area to shed those roots, especially in a recession.
What problems are there in south Gwinnett? That area has less crime than the area you live in.
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