Storm Windows or Replacement Windows? (Sandy Springs, Dunwoody: insurance, credit, how much)

[RoslynHolcomb]

Our home doesn't have storm windows. They're original to the house (42 yo) and we're trying to decide whether to buy storm windows or just replace them with new energy-efficient windows. Is it cold enough here for double-pane? We've never bought windows before, so we're not sure. We're just starting to research, but we're pretty sure the windows are not standard sizes. Fortunately there are only ten of them. (Our previous house had 24 windows and was 400 sf smaller! )

Does anyone know a reputable place to call for quotes? Most seem to be 38" x 50", but two are 36" x 72". We'd like to get this taken care of before the winter weather comes, but if it's crazy expensive we might have to wait until spring. Does anyone have a ballpark figure as to how much we should expect to pay? I see ads all the time for replacement windows, but I assume that most of those are scams.

[BobKovacs]

It's not "cold enough" for double-pane windows, but it certainly is "hot enough"....lol. IMO, you'd be crazy to invest in putting storm windows over 40 y/o single-pane windows. There really aren't "standard sizes" for replacement windows, so you shouldn't have any issues there- the driving factor on costs will be whether we're talking about existing wood windows or existing metal windows. With wood windows, they can pop out the existing sashes, install a new vinyl unit, and wrap the remaining outside frame with aluminum to create a maintenance-free finished product. With metal, it's usually necessary to tear out the entire window unit, install a new unit, and then patch the siding and interior trim, which is a much bigger (and more expensive job).

If you stay away from the big, high-pressure window firms, you can probably get your windows replaced and wrapped for around $400-500 each if they're wood, more if they're metal.

One last thing to consider- as of April 2010, any house built before 1978 will need to have painted surfaces tested for lead of you're disturbing more than 6 square feet of interior, or 20 sf of exterior (you'd exceed that). If lead paint is found on the windows, the contractor has to do alot of work to seal the areas he's working in, and properly dispose of the removed units. Any contractor who tells you "oh, don't worry about that- we can get around that stuff" is breaking the law, and putting you and your family at risk.

Hopefully that last part didn't scare you too much!

[RoslynHolcomb]

Thanks Bob, I was hoping you would comment. The windows are definitely wood. I hadn't thought about the heat, but of course it makes sense that it would work both ways. And of course, that would help with the energy-efficiency as well. $500 doesn't seem too bad, and I think we'll get a bit of a tax break. It's probably not much, but every bit helps!

Hopefully that last part didn't scare you too much!

Nope, didn't frighten me at all. We've been through the lead thing before with our previous house which was 60+ years old. Oddly enough they didn't find any lead, but I sure wouldn't want to raise my child in a house with lead, or sell to someone else if there is lead there. I definitely don't want anyone who'd try to "work around" that.

We've seen flyers for $185 per window and that seemed low to me especially considering labor. I figured they were either crappy windows or they'd be using undocumented workers. Either way we wanted no part of that. We don't need the world's most expensive windows, but we don't want bad windows either. As for undocs, I don't want to risk someone getting hurt and we'd be liable because they don't have insurance.

[K'ledgeBldr]

I've done several "sash replacements".
It's a pretty simple and straight forward process if you have conventional double hung windows.
My cost is about 85-90 bucks a window+labor and overhead.
And there is no code violation.
If you remove a window unit it is suppose to be upgraded to current code (as in size for correct egress). Vinyl unit replacements - although nice and give you the benefits of thermal break, and low maintenance, are actually smaller than the original window (glass area) and sometimes don't meet current code- where as the original window (glass area) did.

And if the original frame/jamb is in good shape there's no reason to cap. I also disagree with capping because the installers just do it- without investigating the current condition or moisture content.

[BobKovacs]

Originally Posted by K'ledgeBldr

And if the original frame/jamb is in good shape there's no reason to cap. I also disagree with capping because the installers just do it- without investigating the current condition or moisture content.

Agreed. I can't count the number of windows I saw in NJ where they capped right over rotten sills and frames. I guess the caulk was going to hold it all together over time, right?

I do like the lack of maintenance needed after their capped (correctly) though. That may have been a bigger deal up north where everything was vinyl sided and you didn't want to have to paint window frames. If the rest if the house is Hardi like they usually are here, you end up having to paint anyway, so painting the window frames isn't as big a deal.

[10scoachrick]

I believe your tax credit would be up to 30% of materials cost(not labor) with a cap of $1500 total on all energy qualified improvements...and I haven't checked lately but I believe that ends at the end of this year. Some of the window and insulation scammers are going to refer to that as a 'discount', although they are discounting nothing.

It's been about 4 years but a good painted(baked on) aluminum exterior/wood interior replacement sash ran +-$200 each for low-e, argon gas, double pane. The big boxes wanted $180 each for labor. I replaced 9 of our 1956 Sandy Springs sashes myself and got down to about 20 minutes each for the last 3-4. I had to cut out the existing sashes, replace the sash/frame liner and install the new sash. Not that difficult if you are handy.

It might make sense to replace the most exposed windows/sashes first, especially if the budget suggests breaking up the project. The new windows improved hot and cold transfer as well as sound attenuation. The new sashes also worked better than any of the originals and had the tilt-in to clean feature...yea!

This, of course, presumes that the frames are in good shape. We used Jeld-Wen 'zap pacs' ordered through Home Depot and were very happy with the results.

On the other hand, the calculations show that the actual $ return/payback for replacement windows is a looooong time coming. BUT, there is a lot to be said for the improved comfort level, never mind the energy savings.

Good luck!

[RoslynHolcomb]

I believe your tax credit would be up to 30% of materials cost(not labor) with a cap of $1500 total on all energy qualified improvements...and I haven't checked lately but I believe that ends at the end of this year. Some of the window and insulation scammers are going to refer to that as a 'discount', although they are discounting nothing.

Bummer. We might not be able to do it until spring. I'm really worried about the scammers. We've found some good people in a contractor guide that I guess the City of Dunwoody does, or maybe it's a contractor's association. So far everyone we've used from there (HVAC, tiler, plumber) have been excellent and reasonably priced.

This, of course, presumes that the frames are in good shape.

My guess is that after 40+ years without storm windows the frames are probably gone as well. Our house is brick, though of course, the sashes are wood.

It might make sense to replace the most exposed windows/sashes first, especially if the budget suggests breaking up the project.

Yeah this is probably the direction we're heading in. The front of our house faces northwest, so we get both the hot afternoon sun and the harsh winter winds on that side of the house.

I replaced 9 of our 1956 Sandy Springs sashes myself and got down to about 20 minutes each for the last 3-4.

Wow, that's impressive. We're fairly handy and did replace a small bathroom window on our old house. We also did a kitchen and two bathrooms (all but electrical and plumbing) but I don't think we're up to replacing windows.

[10scoachrick]

Ros, I had a really long response that apparently blew my Firefox fuse! In essence:

Don't sell your DIY skills short. If it's just sash replacement, I'll bet you can do it!

The tax credit deadline is the end of the year. IF you purchase the windows by then, you should be able to apply for the credit. Department of Energy - Homepage will give you the details. Remember, the $1500 credit is the max, based on 30% of the materials cost for qualified improvements. It is possible to buy 'energy efficient' windows that would NOT qualify. You can combine your window project cost with other qualified energy improvements to reach your $ goal.

I'm darned near certain that the 'contractor' book you refer to is not anything official. We had those in Sandy Springs for years. Not bogus in the legal sense; but, the companies that got the most glowing write-ups paid for the 'advert'. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Just looks a little shady if it is the booklet I remember(mostly black and white, mentions 'Dunwoody' or 'Sandy Springs' in the title, softcover, about 10" x 12", doesn't give real information on the 'rejected' contractors).

Since you have had good experience with other contractors(listed in the book), you might ask one of them for a recommendation for window work. Especially if your contractor was smaller/independent, he's not likely to jeopardize his business rep by recommending a scammer(fingers crossed).

Our 50 year old Sandy Springs window frames were in very good shape...none needed replacing. Unless you had water issues, you may be in luck and only need sashes. Best of luck!

[K'ledgeBldr]

This isn't exactly the way I do it- But it's a good overview of what it takes to DIY.

How to Install a Window Sash Replacement Kit : How-To : DIY Network

[tamlym]

Same dilemma here. I got two quotes from two companies for 11 window replacements (vinyl with GRIDS). The super brand name company quoted me about 500 a window. The "lesser brand" company was running about 400 per window. Note that one of these companies is advertising 200 dollar windows. It's a bit misleading.
Yes, it's 200 per window. Then you need to add $$ to upgrade to make it "enery efficient" to qualify for the federal incentive. Also $$for the grids, and ext trim. So the total ended up about 400.
For me, I think windows are windows. But the installer is important, and I would rather use the company that employs their installers vs those that use "certified" subcontractors....because if there are issues, they will blame each other and you are stuck...hope this helps