It's totally worth buying the $$$ wine, but not at the restaurant (white wine, best)

[Phil P]

There's a lot of discussion and head scratching around how to get the good tastes for wines on cheap. It can happen, but from my experience, all the wines I've had that I didn't really care for were ones that sold for $15 or less. I can't really think of many times I've had a wine from a $30+ bottle that I didn't like - there were times with locally grown New Mexico wine, but they were still decently good, and that's wine that's grown on the edge of possibility there. Given I don't go through bottles that quickly, drinking for taste rather than buzz, I don't really want to gamble with a meh experience.

The value prospect dims with well known varieties in my opinion. The wine store owners that I talk to repeatedly say that although there's a lot of really cool exciting options at the store, it's still the Cabs and Chardonnays and Sav Blancs that sell. But for ones that are odd varieties or blends of odd varieties, it's almost a given that it will be great for the $20-35 range, because they wouldn't get traction without being solid flavors in a more conservative buyers market.

The odd varieties or methods like orange wine are the most exciting in my opinion, it's experiencing the full flavor spectrum and the master of blending that's cool.

But restaurants seem to generally offer the more conservative, well known varieties that taste like what people expect. Couple this with the 3x markup, I generally haven't been too impressed with restaurant wine compared to the great experiences I've had at home, which only cost 2 glasses of $13 dollar wine (plus tip) anyway.

Wine consumption is trending down in the US and across the world, but I wonder how much of that is because people haven't actually had really good vintages. The same holds true for cigars and chocolate and coffee and tea too, most people didn't get the full true experience with a cheap purchase.

[Thoreau424]

All the wine I buy is from local stores, from about $12 to $18 (usually $14-16). And that's many varietals (albarino, verdejo, arneis, muscadet, falanghina, sauvignon blanc, colombard, grechetto, garganega, vermentino, etc.) There are lots of great affordable Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese, and NZ bottles out there. I can't speak for those who overpay for some lame American Chardonnay not worth more than single digit cost.

I rarely eat at restaurants - both due to cost and unknowns in the kitchen - so enjoy the vino at home. I can always down a few glasses before going to the restaurant, to avoid the $ rip-off and crap selection.

Sorry to sound annoyed, but we can do a lot better in this area. There's so much great wine out there, but Americans settle for the same old few varietals, made poorly compared to European standards, and think they're satisfied. I'm rather poor, but if I can afford great wine, anyone else could too. Cheers!

[RubyandPearl]

I like all wine, even sweet ones for dessert - although I 'd rather have a Brandy Alexander to drink dessert. And technically I guess brandy could be classed as wine even though distilled.

However I rarely drink red, too filling and stains the teeth. So I stick with white, can't be too dry and crisp for me. Can't stand fruity floral white wine, Chardonnay and chablis taste like syrup.

Local wines in Europe can be wonderful. In a thunderstorm in Paris we ducked into a little hole in the wall near the Seine to wait out the rain with a glass of vin du pays for 12 centimes back when a French franc exchanged for about $0.20.

What's 1/12th of 20 cents? We never could figure it out but the wine was delicious (red).

[OutdoorLover]

Cabernets can taste wonderful, but they need aging to soften the tannins which can be very bitter when drunk young, and and aged cabernet won't come cheap.

I like reds and am looking for bargains and tend to go for:

- Cotes du Rhone - Villages or better, especially GSM blends (grenache, syrah, and mourvedre)
- Shiraz/syrah
- Pinot Noir
- Zinfandel
- Beaujolais - Villages or better

As regions, Australia, Chile and Argentina also have some bargains compared to California and French wines

...and I read wine reviews to help me find bargains that don't taste like cheap wine

[Phil P]

I was talking with the local wine shop owner the other day and he said the majority of customers come in and buy the top recognized varietals. He said the worst deals were California chardonnays and cabs.

I think that's why I've been turned off by those varietals, that's what's served at restaurants cause it's recognizable, but you're getting a cheaper bottle, so you get the meh flavors that make you wonder if you should have ordered beer instead.

It's sort of like what happened with Merlot, it was famous, a lot of people planted it and sold meh quality riding on the name, it got a bad rap for that, and now is unpopular. That's my prediction for Cab. I'll try it in 8 years lol, I think Merlot is safer now . Malbecs I've always liked, but not loved, so that's why it's been hard for me to dive into Argentina.

I don't know that I've ever had a too dry white either. There's been some sweeter and fruity ones I've really likes, like Jauffers Viogner , but there's a risk that they taste rather simple and juicelike. Oaking can easily be overdone though IMO.

I guess what I've found is if I want to try something that's outside of my comfort like say when I started orange wine, if I buy a $10 bottle, I could write off a whole varietal or process on a meh bottle, but for $25, the rough edges are likely ironed out, giving a fairer shake to what it should be.

[OutdoorLover]

While the cheapest wines tend to be blends, there are many fantastic, and also in some cases very expensive wines blended from several varieties of grapes. French wines, which are wonderful, tend to be blends, whether it's a simple table wine/rouge, or a high dollar bordeaux or burgundy wine, and the appellations regulate the grape varieties and their proportions in the blend of e.g. a Medoc or a St Emillion bordeaux wine.

Here is a little info on bordeaux, burgundy and cotes du rhone wines.

https://winefolly.com/deep-dive/a-pr...bordeaux-wine/

https://winefolly.com/deep-dive/guid...ine-with-maps/

https://winefolly.com/deep-dive/cote...ine-with-maps/

[Thoreau424]

Originally Posted by OutdoorLover

While the cheapest wines tend to be blends... French wines, which are wonderful, tend to be blends...

I haven't found that to be true at all. French wines are the biggest group I buy from, and they're all single varietals (only one grape type, not blends). Same for the other countries. I like to taste a specific grape type / varietal, so avoid blends. And like I said before, have had many very good bottles in the $14 - $18 range. I am talking about whites, not reds.

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by Thoreau424

I haven't found that to be true at all. French wines are the biggest group I buy from, and they're all single varietals (only one grape type, not blends). Same for the other countries. I like to taste a specific grape type / varietal, so avoid blends. And like I said before, have had many very good bottles in the $14 - $18 range. I am talking about whites, not reds.

So I didn't say that you couldn't buy varietal wines from France. The Bordeaux region of France is still arguably the most famous wine producing region in the world, and

Both red and white Bordeaux wines are almost invariably blended.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bordeaux_wine_regions

One of the most important things to know about Bordeaux wines is that they are a blend of grape varieties.

https://winefolly.com/deep-dive/a-pr...bordeaux-wine/

I used to buy a lot of Bordeaux. They're certainly not cheap, but they taste wonderful - everyone has their individual taste of course, but there is no general acceptance of the idea that varietal wines are superior, they're just different. I like both varietals and blends and think in each broad category, there is a wide range of quality and variety. Red Bordeaux are typically a blend of Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot, and Cabernet Franc, often with some Malbec and Petit Verdot added, and white Bordeaux are typically a blend of Semillon and Sauvignon Blanc, with perhaps some Muscadelle added.

Cotes du Rhone wines, which I buy a fair amount these days because there are many good values, are also normally blended wines - the best known red blend from the Cotes du Rhone region is Grenache, Syrah, and Mourvèdre, and their white blends are generally mainly Marsanne and Roussanne, often with some Viognier and Grenache Blanc added.

I don't drink a ton of wine at age 65 as my consumption has been slowly tapering for 40 years now, but I have always preferred reds, and probably buy those 3:1 versus whites or rose's - not saying reds are better, they're just my preference.

[Tall Traveler]

I buy reds from $7-$50 a bottle depending on my mood, how the market is doing, etc. Normally I feel that the more expensive the better. I buy California, Washington, French, Italian, Spanish, Argentine and Chilean wines. I think the Argentinian and Chilean are possibly the best value especially if you buy the higher rates ones.

Weirdly I had an Arizona wine at my son's house and it was excellent. My DIL spoiled the fun and said it was $45 a bottle, but it was worth it.

[COcheesehead]

Originally Posted by Thoreau424

I haven't found that to be true at all. French wines are the biggest group I buy from, and they're all single varietals (only one grape type, not blends). Same for the other countries. I like to taste a specific grape type / varietal, so avoid blends. And like I said before, have had many very good bottles in the $14 - $18 range. I am talking about whites, not reds.

Keep in mind some of France’s largest wine regions are all based on blends: Bordeaux, Champagne and Rhone to name some.