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Does it occur to you that there are solid reasons why the medical establishment has promulgated guidelines for the amount of regular alcohol consumption which is consistent with good health? Do you really think that your observations of your own friends is a good substitute for peer-reviewed epidemiological studies which have been done over the years?
It's just further proof that Denial is not merely a river in Egypt.
Alcoholism is definitely a recognized disease in Europe, and there are Government education and treatment programs everywhere to deal with it. To say otherwise is simple ignorance. For example, in Finland the highest rate of death among working adults is due to alcohol abuse, and there are not only anti-alcohol programs, but extremely high taxes on alcohol to try to discourage binge drinking (drinking a lot in one session in order to get very drunk).
Part of what is difficult in understanding alcoholism is because it manifests in many different ways, and it involves both physical addiction and psychological habituation. There's no simple gauge of what is, and what is not alcoholism, such as how many drinks a day one has. It's more complicated than that, and has everything to do with one's dependency on alcohol to feel normal and to get through life.
Meanwhile, the OP has had his question answered, and we've moved on from the ever-present thumpers who (as usual) love to feel smart about their armchair diagnoses but are much too far up on their own pedestals to realize we are people, not addictions.
Meanwhile, the OP has had his question answered, and we've moved on from the ever-present thumpers who (as usual) love to feel smart about their armchair diagnoses but are much too far up on their own pedestals to realize we are people, not addictions.
can't rep you again. This is obviously a very hot topic. There will always be those who can find a sturdy that says thus and so and those who will see it differently.
2 drinks per day for men, 1 for women, seems acceptable, but then you have the doctor (mine btw and she does not drink) says don't worry about a couple of glasses a day, as long as your liver seems healthy and your life isn't being controlled by the wine or whatever you enjoy. In fact she thinks you can do as much damage by worrying about whether you are consuming 2 5oz glasses, 2 8 oz glasses, 1 6 oz glass than if you just use common sense. This is like those who think eating red meat or meat period is going to kill us and can show studies that say the same. Then we have those on the other side, that will continue to eat a 12 oz steak each night. I am a firm believer there is no right or wrong when it comes to these issue.
I do think most of those who feel 2 or even 3 glasses of wine or a couple of cocktails every night, either are tee totallers, (spelling) recovering alcoholics or have had personal experience with an abusive drinker. o
I will agree with you there. With many people, they see alcohol and either scream in fright because their father was an abusive SOB when he was drunk (just an example) or they were raised in a church that says alcohol is a sin. Either way, if you don't like alcohol, that is your right and I support that right.
But I was not here to ask for advice on my drinking. I know I drink, my doctor knows I drink (and how much), and yes he tells me to quit but I don't lie and say I have quit when I haven't because I do realize my age and am now going through some procedures of my own so I have been honest with my doctors.
I just got my first colonoscopy last week and after I was wheeled back to the procedure room they went down the list of questions, and I answered truthfully. When it got to the drinking part and I told her eight beers a day, she said , "Really? Like seriously?" And I said yes. She just said wow, and then put a piece of colored tape there to let the anesthesiologist know.
I'm not an alcoholic because I don't have to have beer to exist. I just took care of my two grandkids by myself for a week (they are 4 and 1) and I didn't drink at all, didn't even want to, because I do not drink around those babies.
But because I have drank for so long, it takes more beer for me to get a buzz. That's the only way I can explain it.
And besides, why am I, anyway? Explaining it, that is. This is my life. Go worry about your own
Have to admit though, the mornings after the three non-drinking nights of Mon., Wed., and Fri., I feel like age 16 again. But the mornings after the four drinking nights, I feel like hell, all wiped out, even tho only four drinks a night are consumed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by convextech
I will agree with you there. With many people, they see alcohol and either scream in fright because their father was an abusive SOB when he was drunk (just an example) or they were raised in a church that says alcohol is a sin. Either way, if you don't like alcohol, that is your right and I support that right.
But I was not here to ask for advice on my drinking. I know I drink, my doctor knows I drink (and how much), and yes he tells me to quit but I don't lie and say I have quit when I haven't because I do realize my age and am now going through some procedures of my own so I have been honest with my doctors.
I just got my first colonoscopy last week and after I was wheeled back to the procedure room they went down the list of questions, and I answered truthfully. When it got to the drinking part and I told her eight beers a day, she said , "Really? Like seriously?" And I said yes. She just said wow, and then put a piece of colored tape there to let the anesthesiologist know.
I'm not an alcoholic because I don't have to have beer to exist. I just took care of my two grandkids by myself for a week (they are 4 and 1) and I didn't drink at all, didn't even want to, because I do not drink around those babies.
But because I have drank for so long, it takes more beer for me to get a buzz. That's the only way I can explain it.
And besides, why am I, anyway? Explaining it, that is. This is my life. Go worry about your own
To Convextech: No need to be so touchy and defensive about the thread topic. The OP initiated a rather open and wide-ranging discussion about alcohol and its effects on people - I quoted part of his OP above in which he talks about feeling like hell on the mornings after only four drinks were consumed. Obviously different people have different tolerances, and those tolerances can change as we age. Yes, it is your life, and I do not worry about it. But there is a reason we sometimes worry about friends and relatives, and that is because we care about them. I had a friend of many years standing who died at age 61 from liver failure brought on by many, many years of heavy, heavy drinking. During the last year or so of his life he was practically disabled but was unable or unwilling to live without alcohol. Maybe it was worth it to him, but it seems like an incomprehensible mystery to me.
As for the final line of your post above, methinks thou dost protest too much. Do you also go off in such a hostile way on your doctor when he asks you to quit or cut down? Do you think your doctor has a rational reason for his request, or do you just think he's a Puritan, somebody who can't stand to see other people enjoy themselves?
You're missing my point, which is that he's borderline binge-drinking 4 times a week, and has been binge-drinking as well as maintenance drinking his whole life. It's not like he's in college partying it up. Binge drinking for years on end is a sign of alcoholism.
Up to two drinks in one evening is considered moderate drinking for men. Also, please note what that link says about moderate drinking: "This definition is referring to the amount consumed on any single day and is not intended as an average over several days." He's having 4 drinks at a go. That's heavy drinking.
OP, the bottom line is that you drink too much. If you're not an alcoholic, you definitely abuse alcohol, and I suggest that you see a counselor about it.
4 drinks is heavy drinking?
lol, i guess that means that pretty much everyone is an alcoholic then
I do not agree with people who say an alcoholic can't become a moderate drinker. I believe they just need to be told how to do it. Willie Nelson is a good example. He was getting very drunk very regularly and smoking 3-4 packs of cigarettes daily. Since he started cannabis use, no tobacco use & is now a moderate drinker. But laws against cannabis use pressure people who need *something* to choose from the list of legal but harmful drugs.
How are we supposed to know how much is too much? I agree if it makes people feel bad later, it was probably too much. I also believe heavy drinking is not a guarantee of premature death. But how much is too much will vary with things like body weight. Drinkers who can't or don't want to quit, but prefer to try to keep living, should investigate dietary supplements for the liver, like Himalaya Liver Care, or the other products listed on Swanson Vitamins under liver health. The uncensored reviews are on Amazon & some of these products have been laboratory tested.
Studies will vary on how much alcohol is too much: One says 2, 1 says 3, 1 says 4. Was the one who said only 1 OK financed by treatment center operators? Was the study that said 3 a day is OK financed by alcohol industry? Without knowing if a study was influenced by money, it is hard to know which is right, if any.
People should also be aware that many pills, prescription & non-prescription, can damage the liver. But it seems there is not much criticism of those who use harmful pills, compared to criticism of alcohol users. Best wishes to all.
lol, i guess that means that pretty much everyone is an alcoholic then
I guess 28 drinks a week would be considered heavy drinking most places, but it might be a requirement to get into a college fraternity! There may still be a debate about what is alcoholism. Is it about need vs want, or use amount? I've known people who can carry on a normal conversation after 15 beers, but some are against functioning alcoholics as much as they are against non-functioning alcoholics.
Many college students *act* like alcoholics. But some cut back later, despite the addiction "experts" claiming that isn't possible.
There are employers that might not hire, might fire, those who use alcohol, just like they won't hire tobacco users, or cannabis users. Yet they seem OK with hiring those who may be impaired by pills. Probably not many employers reading medical studies.
lol, i guess that means that pretty much everyone is an alcoholic then
"Pretty much everyone" does absolutely not consume four alcoholic drinks in one day on anything like a regular basis. Perhaps you are generalizing from the small sample of people you know personally? We tend to surround ourselves with people who have habits more or less like ours.
I like classical music and so do quite a few of my friends, but I am under no illusion that "pretty much everyone" likes classical music just because that is common among my friends.
Heavy drinkers, especially, tend to surround themselves with other heavy drinkers. That way they can look around and think, "See, this amount of drinking is just normal - everybody is doing it".
I used to be a big drinker now I barely drink at all.
If I do, even if I only have a couple of glasses, I pay for it the next day, so it hardly seems worth it.
Getting bad hangovers is a blessing in disguise.
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o
Why so touchy and defensive?
