Hoonah update (Tok: crime, credit, house)

[stiffnecked]

This ADN article is pretty good. It's a good read and has good info for everyone. What a tragedy. It has me wondering if this could have been preventable.

Hoonah police were wary of shooting suspect: Southeast | adn.com

[richelles]

Originally Posted by stiffnecked

This ADN article is pretty good. It's a good read and has good info for everyone. What a tragedy. It has me wondering if this could have been preventable.

Maybe if they hadn't parked in front of his house to have their conversation they would have avoided the provocation. Now they can ask what set him off.

I think I would be one unhappy person if I got tased. The use of a Taser has killed quite a few people but the people who sell them keep saying it isn't the cause of those deaths. But many people see an association between getting tased and people dieing. If you can start a heart with a strong charge you could also stop a heart with that charge. I don't believe anyone whose profits are linked to someone dieing when the device is used can necessarily be trusted to tell the truth when that might affect their profits.

[AKStafford]

richelles: Seriously? It's the cop's fault? They used the Taser because he TACKLED them. Slain officers arrested accused shooter in 2009 incident: Crime | adn.com
Have you been to Hoonah? I lived there for six years. I've still got friends that live there.
So because police are authority figures, and in the course of doing their job they have to deal with aggressive people who won't respond to reasonable request, it's okay for those people to MURDER those police officers? Leaving behind grieving families? Little kids who will now grow up without a father?
Wow... Seriously?

[tigre79]

My only thought about the taser thing is that if they hadn't had a less-lethal alternative when he attacked them before, maybe they'd still be alive.

As it is, some people are just nuts. There isn't a lot you can do about it except stay away from them. Unfortunately police officers are often forced to deal with them. These cops sound like they did what they could, and even went above and beyond to try to help this guy. Compassion didn't work, and he did what he was probably going to do all along. What a terrible thing. I hope your friends are dealing with this okay, Stafford.

[richelles]

Originally Posted by AKStafford

richelles: Seriously? It's the cop's fault? They used the Taser because he TACKLED them. ... ... So because police are authority figures, and in the course of doing their job they have to deal with aggressive people who won't respond to reasonable request, it's okay for those people to MURDER those police officers? Wow... Seriously?

AKStafford You read a lot into what I said and make it appear I said something I didn't say. Stiffnecked wrote: "It has me wondering if this could have been preventable." (Which I took as a question although his statement doesn't have a question mark.) I answered that question with: "Maybe if they hadn't parked in front of his house to have their conversation they would have avoided the provocation." I can appreciate your bias having lived in the Village and possibly knowing some of the people involved but a fair reading of the question, and answer, doesn't raise it to the level of an accusation but rather gives a possible explanation (i.e. the word Maybe in front of the statement.)

I have reread the statements which are from, news reporters writings, court records, and police statements, as far as I can tell. If there is any one thing I learned over my career, doing accident analysis and failure analysis, it is each witness comes with his own set of biases. It is the investigator's task to separate fact from fiction by going to the evidence. At times you will have no definitive evidence so you have to report, two or more sides, so whoever is going to read the report knows the discrepancy. In this case everything is derived from the two dead officer's written and spoken statements and from Police Chiefs Milian's statements to news reporters. And his words about what the officers said is now hearsay because they can't be questioned about what they said. The Chief is now the only person, in that Department, who can be held accountable for what took place. Is it possible he is making a self serving statement with his future in mind?

Thus you are left with a choice; And with a one sided story how do you proceed? The Sworn Peace Officer must work to see the Defendant gets a fair trial but he has uttered words that could be construed as undermining that event.

First consider; What kind of rapport did this police force have with the local populace? In what I'm reading, that is available to us, the entire police force has changed in the recent past. So you need to ask questions as to the relationship between John Marvin, the police, and the community. Reading the articles shows an undercurrent of feelings toward Marvin in the area; "a reclusive man", "increasingly strange behavior", "villager's whispered", "has really darkened his house", "I don't see him anymore", "he's gong to kill ...", and a pronouncement credited to the police chief; "There's no law against being strange. Against being mentally ill. Against being perceived as being weird."

Then what can we say about his treatment by the police? Possibly the most well known of the reported incidents involving police use of Tasers was the March 31, 1991 video of the tasing and beating of Rodney King in Los Angeles. There seventeen brave, armed, police officers participated in the tasing and beating of an unarmed man who had fled from police. In the trial in State Court the defense offered was "I was afraid for my life." All were found not guilty and a riot followed. Later seven were tried in Federal Court and two were found guilty and went to prison. Since that incident the numbers of in custody deaths has increased six fold.

Since then there have been 334 reported deaths where a Taser was involved. (And here it is uncertain anywhere near all such incidents in the US have been reported) In about fifty of those cases death was found to have been the result of being Tasered. In many of the others the words "Contributed to the death" were used in connection with the death. So in 15% of the cases there was a death attributed to the use of the Taser; And in approximately 45% of the cases the use of a Taser contributed to the death. Some cases were blamed on alcohol, drugs, age, medical conditions and heart problems. In none of these reported cases was it ever found that police were violating policies. Does that raise questions about the viability of those policies? The standard that police forces claim is in use is "Force as a last resort and then only in proportion to the threat posed. It is also stated that "verbal dialog is not a substantial threat" but it is admitted that most of the use of Tasers is for failing to obey. And most times Tasers have been used on unarmed individuals. And if this case is to be any example for how the use of a Taser can lead to a bad result then maybe we need to consider a ban on their use by law enforcement.

[blueflames50]

something I have not seen brought up ...is the resulting effects of Tasers on the chemical balance of the brain. It is a known and medical use of electrical "stimulation" (for lack of a better term) for centuries to alter a chemical imbalance in people with psychiatric issues.
No study to this day has been done to even explore what a Tasering to a person who is showing signs of mental imbalance which 9 out of 10 times is a chemical imbalance. Then throw into the mix the fact of an emotional response to past situations....kinda like a keg of gun powder waiting for the spark.

[AADAD]

I for one appreciate Richelles post. Cogent and it attempts to bring light to a situation where there is such sadness. Thanks for your post. Police are people not immune to all the emotions that others have. I know that if the police ever think I am a bad guy I am having my open hands showing. And pray.

[stiffnecked]

Originally Posted by richelles

"Maybe if they hadn't parked in front of his house to have their conversation they would have avoided the provocation."

They didn't provoke anything. They were having an innocent conversation. Why would they attempt to provoke Marvin when they had family members with them in their cars? Your comments and conjecture are so far off base that I am adding you to my ignore list. Why must you act like you know what your talking about when you clearly don't? Your comments are just pathetic.

Standoff follows shooting deaths of two Hoonah officers: Southeast | adn.com

[LEFT]Tokuoka was in his car with his wife, Haley, their 6-year-old son and their 2-year-old daughter, Martin said. They stopped to talk to Wallace, the officer on duty, who was standing outside the vehicle. Wallace's mother, a nurse who was visiting from Florida, was nearby and saw her son shot, Prunella said.
[/LEFT]

Hoonah police were wary of shooting suspect: Southeast | adn.com

[LEFT]About a week later, Wallace and his partner, off-duty police officer Matt Tokuoka, were dead. Police say Marvin shot them in front of their families when the officers happened to stop and talk in front of his home.



Hoonah police were wary of shooting suspect: Southeast | adn.com


[LEFT]"My officers had come to me and said that they weren't aggressively motivated to throw him under the bus of the court system. They had some compassion for him," Millan said.
On Dec. 1, prosecutors dropped assault and trespassing charges against Marvin, court records show. [/LEFT]


[LEFT]

[/LEFT]
[/LEFT]

[tidelines]

I've worked for the Hoonah PD, so it's pretty damn difficult for me to see the other side of this story.

[Prickly Cactus]

Originally Posted by AKStafford

richelles: Seriously? It's the cop's fault? They used the Taser because he TACKLED them. Slain officers arrested accused shooter in 2009 incident: Crime | adn.com
Have you been to Hoonah? I lived there for six years. I've still got friends that live there.
So because police are authority figures, and in the course of doing their job they have to deal with aggressive people who won't respond to reasonable request, it's okay for those people to MURDER those police officers? Leaving behind grieving families? Little kids who will now grow up without a father?
Wow... Seriously?

After reading the incident online, I am a police officer and would like information on where to apply for a job in Hoonah. Have lived in Alaska for 10 years, currently living in Arizona. Would like to move. Can you help me out?