If CA thinks it can leave the US, can a county leave CA? (Sacramento: house, live)

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by StanleysOwl

We've been through exactly this before.you are claiming that an entire work of government planning be presented in advance on an internet forum for guys like you to pass judgement on before it has any legitimacy. Hilarious. You can't even cite facts for the vast majority of the thousands of posts ypu make here and have apparently no knowledge or understanding of world history - but suggest this should all pass your review in total. You, the guy who in another thread suggested that the establishment of a post office with stamps alone would present an insurmmountable barrier. In spite of every nation having mail, post office, and stamps.

The "reality" exists in hundreds of real life, successful examples of nations all around you all around the planet. You want specifics? Go educate yourself on how other nations solve every issue you raise.

In other words there is none, it is just wishful thinking in CA. OK, no problem, dreams are fun.

[StanleysOwl]

Originally Posted by expatCA

In other words there is none, it is just wishful thinking in CA. OK, no problem, dreams are fun.

No, in other words there are hundreds of detailed examples you are unwilling to learn about.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by expatCA

I do not disagree, but who is presenting anything that functions that way and has the details spelled out in any coherent way? The idea "sounds" good, but the reality is vastly different to accomplish.

What, as an example, if the power brokers in CA don't want that? Saying the people would vote is not a good answer as right now, even with multiple parties in CA, look how it has turned out.

Theory VS reality and what has happened in other Countries is not proof, as many took centuries to develop and others had it controlled by the Countries that controlled them prior to Nationhood.

Originally Posted by expatCA

So provide the name of any group or groups actually writing a basic constitution in harmony with what you think will work. You know reality?

Talking about it is fun, but the reality is lacking IN CA.

You're confusing starting a country with starting a business. All of your concerns are valid for running a business. A government is not a business. You don't lay out a plan before anything happens. Governing, is a lot of trial and error. You base it on a country that has a system you like and copy it while tweaking it to fit the new nations unique needs and benefits. At this point, we have a good knowledge of what does and doesn't work in modern democracies so the experimentation that took place beforehand is not needed.

You are only able to see things from an American point of view. And that is, if it isn't the American way then it's inferior and/or will fail. Not your fault, we are taught this from a very young age but you are at a point now where you should be able to look passed your little bubble. Maybe a presidential system isn't best for CA, maybe we'd have a prime minister, or a chancellor. Maybe a system like Germany's would work best where we would have a president and a chancellor. My point is, the fact that a plan for a new nation can't be known 100% beforehand is not a valid argument against it.

[Finper]

and who would decide if you crazy Californians (cause I'd be gone) would be under Prime Minister or Chancellor or the death star? California would devolve into chaos so fast.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

You're confusing starting a country with starting a business. All of your concerns are valid for running a business. A government is not a business. You don't lay out a plan before anything happens. Governing, is a lot of trial and error. You base it on a country that has a system you like and copy it while tweaking it to fit the new nations unique needs and benefits. At this point, we have a good knowledge of what does and doesn't work in modern democracies so the experimentation that took place beforehand is not needed.

You are only able to see things from an American point of view. And that is, if it isn't the American way then it's inferior and/or will fail. Not your fault, we are taught this from a very young age but you are at a point now where you should be able to look passed your little bubble. Maybe a presidential system isn't best for CA, maybe we'd have a prime minister, or a chancellor. Maybe a system like Germany's would work best where we would have a president and a chancellor. My point is, the fact that a plan for a new nation can't be known 100% beforehand is not a valid argument against it.

You are making unwarranted assumptions.

First no State could become a Country without a functional Gov't in place. Even if an interim Gov't must exist a form must exist to use for that Gov't. OK, who is on it and how do they get chosen? To get a vote that would allow succession, proof of some sort of intelligent Gov't would have to exist, so what is it? How do you keep the current power brokers from controlling it?

Who are the "you" that will tweek and fix it? A good example is So Africa. Plenty of problems with Apartheid. Oops the Gov't now is worse. Far worse even for blacks there. I know because I have friends and business I work with there. It is an absolute mess.

I see things from an International point of view.

The "maybe's" show you have no plan in place and no one else does or they would be touting it to get people behind it.

I agree a plan can't be known 100% before hand, but it better be at a 90% level or it will fall into chaos.

The idea is interesting, but until some actual concrete ideas are presented it is ... wishful thinking. You know kinda like wanting to buy a house in OC, but having only the wish, no job, no schooling no savings, no credit or even an inheritance to help you get a loan.

When someone has a valid plan, then talk about it. Until then it is a dream and everyone has a slightly different dream.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by expatCA

You are making unwarranted assumptions.

First no State could become Country without a functional Gov't in place. That, even if an interim Gov't must exist. OK, who is on it and how do they get chosen? To get a vote that would allow succession proof of some sort of intelligent Gov't would have to exist, so what is it?

Who are the "you" that will tweek and fix it? A good example is So Africa. Plenty of problems with Apartheid. Oops the Gov't now is worse. Far worse even for blacks there. I know because I have friends and business there. It is an absolute mess.

I see things from an International point of view.

The "maybe's" show you have no plan in place and no one else does or they would be touting it to get people behind it.

I agree a plan can't be known 100% before hand, but it better be at a 90% level or it will fall into chaos.

The idea is interesting, but until some actual concrete ideas are presented it is ... wishful thinking. You know kinda like wanting to buy a house in OC, but having only the wish, no job, no schooling no savings, no credit or even an inheritance to help you get a loan.

When someone has a valid plan, then talk about it. Until then it is a dream and everyone has a slightly different dream.

Your dismissive attitude pretty much means that I am wasting my time discussing this with you anyway. You're hell bent on "it will not work" so I'll leave you to your thoughts. I lack the patience Stanleysowl has.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Your dismissive attitude pretty much means that I am wasting my time discussing this with you anyway. You're hell bent on "it will not work" so I'll leave you to your thoughts. I lack the patience Stanleysowl has.

Did I say it wouldn't work? Or am I asking intelligent questions of those who think it will, but have no solid plan in place, just the dream?

Remember if it ever starts to happen others will have the same questions and they need answers.

OK, post when you have something more than a dream.

[StanleysOwl]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Your dismissive attitude pretty much means that I am wasting my time discussing this with you anyway. You're hell bent on "it will not work" so I'll leave you to your thoughts. I lack the patience Stanleysowl has.

Done here as well. None so blind as those who refuse to see whats right in front of them a hundred times over around the world. Cant be any plainer.

[StanleysOwl]

Originally Posted by expatCA

Did I say it wouldn't work? Or am I asking intelligent questions of those who think it will, but have no solid plan in place, just the dream?

Remember if it ever starts to happen others will have the same questions and they need answers.

OK, post when you have something more than a dream.

yes, you have said it wouldnt work. Over and over. The answers are right in plain view for everyone willing to see.

[BB_210]

The secession thing is every communist libs wet dream. I would probably support it if it looked like this though.