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The first Arab oil embargo took place nearly 40 years ago. We knew then that the world was running out of oil. There's no excuse for us not to be off oil by now.
The oil embargo was political. There was plenty of oil; they just wouldn't let us have it. The sheeple were initially concerned with the long lines at the gas pumps, etc., but once the spigot was turned back on, they turned a blind eye to the situation once again.
I'm always amused at the hypocrisy of the U.S. government. After 9/11, we all heard about how awful the Taliban was and how much they oppressed Afghan women, etc. And yet, what country has one of the most oppressive regimes in the Middle East? Saudi Arabia!
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Originally Posted by wrcousert
The first Arab oil embargo took place nearly 40 years ago. We knew then that the world was running out of oil. There's no excuse for us not to be off oil by now.
The first Arab oil embargo took place nearly 40 years ago. We knew then that the world was running out of oil. There's no excuse for us not to be off oil by now.
The question is when are we going to run out of oil. They knew well before the embargo that there is a limited amount of oil and we would run out at some point.
Who knows? Who, in 1865, with their house lit by whale oil lamps & heated w/coal knew @ today's sources?
Whale oil had been replaced by the 1850's with lard oil and burning fluid (alcohol and turpentine mixture). Kerosene gained the market artificially through a high civil war tax on alcohol which effectively killed the competition (and lard was in more demand for food purposes than as a lamp oil as well). It's a myth that crude oil replaced whale oil and/or saved the whales.
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See above. Believe it or not, humans made do w/o the products from oil for hundreds of thousands of years. Today, we're already seeing shifts in sourcing - there are plastics in (I'd say) most houses today that are derived from natural gas, not oil.
No, I don't believe in a "collapse" of any kind (except for those business built around oil w/no alternatives. How's the smithy business these days? Coachwork? Your local farrier?)
Of course not - don't forget, electricity is a method of transmitting/transferring energy. It's just how it's made that will change.
Humans will survive the end of abundant oil, but the modern lifestyle will not. It's simply a numbers game, with the population what it is today and how much depends on oil. No alternatives to date could replace oil and still maintain the present lifestyle of the average Westerner.
Humans will survive the end of abundant oil, but the modern lifestyle will not. It's simply a numbers game, with the population what it is today and how much depends on oil. No alternatives to date could replace oil and still maintain the present lifestyle of the average Westerner.
Not as it is now, but the alternative isn't necessarily third world poverty, it'd just be an altered and alternative developed lifestyle, maybe using electric vehicles that don't let you go on long road trips, some items becoming too expensive to make, alternative like cellulose based plastic objects being produced etc. An alternative way of life will emerge and it won't be this one, but it might still be okay.
Whale oil had been replaced by the 1850's with lard oil and burning fluid (alcohol and turpentine mixture).
Er, from Wiki:
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The time when most scrimshaw in the 19th century was produced coincided with the heyday of the whaling industry which occurred between 1840-1860
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Kerosene gained the market artificially through a high civil war tax on alcohol which effectively killed the competition (and lard was in more demand for food purposes than as a lamp oil as well). It's a myth that crude oil replaced whale oil and/or saved the whales.
It was a decrease in available whale oil that replaced said oil - "a" comes before "b" so an eventually cheaper fuel replaced it. Oh, and Kero specific wells & refining were in place during the late 50's...
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Humans will survive the end of abundant oil, but the modern lifestyle will not
That's what I said. We'll be past current energy delivery systems in the future, just as we were in the past.
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It's simply a numbers game, with the population what it is today and how much depends on oil. No alternatives to date could replace oil and still maintain the present lifestyle of the average Westerner.
Why the desire for the future to be saddled w/today's lifestyles?
This may come as a shock, but every level of human civilization/organization has been superseded - our progeny will look back w/bemused glances at much of our "backward" ways...
It was a decrease in available whale oil that replaced said oil - "a" comes before "b" so an eventually cheaper fuel replaced it. Oh, and Kero specific wells & refining were in place during the late 50's...
That's what I said. We'll be past current energy delivery systems in the future, just as we were in the past.
Why the desire for the future to be saddled w/today's lifestyles?
This may come as a shock, but every level of human civilization/organization has been superseded - our progeny will look back w/bemused glances at much of our "backward" ways...
I've got stacks of reference material here on historical lighting (namely back issues of Rushlight Club mags). Whale oil was already limited to the very wealthy by the 1850's. Whale oil was used as a lubricant industrially into the 1970's so the whaling industry was slowly dying its century long death by 1860.
Coal oil and mineral oil were around in the 1840's technically, but hardly anyone used them. They were not readily available. Kerosene was a very minor player in the lighting fuels market until the Civil War drove out the competition. The immediate, true replacements for whale oil were lard oil and burning fluid.
I don't want this wasteful manner of living to continue. The sick materialism and waste of this time will die out. The only way for humanity to continue is to live more simply and sustainably.
I've got stacks of reference material here on historical lighting (namely back issues of Rushlight Club mags). Whale oil was already limited to the very wealthy by the 1850's.
Exactly. The price had gone up.
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Whale oil was used as a lubricant industrially into the 1970's so the whaling industry was slowly dying its century long death by 1860.
Again, yes, as supply had decreased.
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Coal oil and mineral oil were around in the 1840's technically, but hardly anyone used them. They were not readily available. Kerosene was a very minor player in the lighting fuels market until the Civil War drove out the competition.
Kero was drilled for & refined in the 50s - so as it's use increased, costs went down. FWIW, note that Kerosene was a decent substitute for other heavy fluids - I have an antique whale oil lamp (CT, pre CW) that today still works w/kerosene. Alcohol, OTOH, is too light & volitile, but not as energy dense.
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The immediate, true replacements for whale oil were lard oil and burning fluid
?? What is "burning fluid"? "Lard" (in liquid form) won't even work in the tube wick lamps.
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I don't want this wasteful manner of living to continue
Speak for yourself, then.
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The sick materialism and waste of this time will die out. The only way for humanity to continue is to live more simply and sustainably.
Yet here you are, typing away on a PC, using electricity to reach out...
Kero was drilled for & refined in the 50s - so as it's use increased, costs went down. FWIW, note that Kerosene was a decent substitute for other heavy fluids - I have an antique whale oil lamp (CT, pre CW) that today still works w/kerosene. Alcohol, OTOH, is too light & volitile, but not as energy dense.
?? What is "burning fluid"? "Lard" (in liquid form) won't even work in the tube wick lamps.
Speak for yourself, then. Yet here you are, typing away on a PC, using electricity to reach out...
Burning fluid is a mix of turpentine and alcohol, patented by Isaiah Jennings over 30 years before the Civil War. It was rather flammable, and led to the development of the vapor lamp (vapor lamps of that era are a bit scarce today). Many people confuse burning fluid lamps with whale oil lamps (fluid burners have long tubes extending upward that do not go into the oil font, to avoid heating the fuel and causing an explosion). FWIW, kerosene in a whale oil burner (which has tubes that heat the heavy oil to thin it) would cause a fire. Either your lamp is a fluid lamp, or was converted to kerosene (quite common).
Lard oil was the oil pressed out of lard at very high pressure. It's a liquid, and coincidentally, it's still available as machinists use it sometimes. It's what the fancy solar lamps and many cheap tin lamps of the 1840's and 50's were made for. Plain old lard can be used in some lard lamps, they require some preheating to get started though. A betty lamp could burn plain lard.
kerosene became cheaper when more wells were drilled. It wasn't possible for many people to use it until a reliable supply was developed. Whale oil was a distant memory for the average person by then.
I'm not a Luddite per se. I am against the mcmansions, monster SUV's, and other assorted wastefulness of the present time.
Trust me, I know the difference between a whale oil lamp & the CW era conversions, as I have one of those also. Certain WO lamps can burn Kero just fine...
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