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We have two neighbors nearby that are both off-grid [one North of us and one South], both of them have windmills and solar. Speaking with them, they both hate their windmills.
We live in a forest. Trees break up the flow of wind. Even with a windmill up at tree top level, the effect is to slow down the wind. Their windmills only spin during storms, and then they shutdown when they spin too fast. The result being that windmills here only produce power a few days each month.
Solar panels make power nearly everyday of the year.
Now if you were in an area where you got a lot of over-cast skies, then it could be an issue.
In the winter, most snow storms here last one day. And they occur once a week, which gives you the other six days of clear skies sun-shine.
Now if you were up North where it gets really cold it might be different. But here in central Maine, solar seems to be the best way to go.
I do like hydroelectric, and I do have creeks that flow across my land. But they freeze in the winter. So hydroelectric here is seasonal.
Forest - where are you again? What is the closest town? You keep saying "it doesn't get cold" but it is Maine after all
I have photos of my land in my profile, and I think my town should be shown on each post in the upper right corner.
Argyle has around 250 people, I think we have roughly 10 people per square mile.
As for how cool it gets, I have spent a bit of time in my career up North in the Arctic Circle. What I have seen in Maine so far is not that cold.
Besides we are decidedly North of the big 'snow-belt' that dumps huge amounts of snow East of the Great Lakes.
Over all I think we have fairly mild weather here.
Our first two winters here I only used a push-broom to deal with the snow on our driveway and porch.
This past three winters we have had a bit more cool weather, but not terribly bad. We go through 3 to 3 1/2 cords of wood each winter.
Nice. When do you get the first snow and when do you get the last snow? How long does the snow stay on the ground during winter, on average?
How early in the year does it get below freezing and when is the last frost in Spring?
I also noticed that only 5% of the families are below poverty line - what do the locals to for a living? Finally, how close are you to a metro area to be able to sell your produce? How long is the growing season? (I know, a million questions....)
Nice. When do you get the first snow and when do you get the last snow? How long does the snow stay on the ground during winter, on average?
We usually begin to see snow mid-December. Sometimes earlier, sometimes later, the first 5 or 6 snow storms do not stick. The ground does not freeze to allow the snow to stick until late December.
Much of the snow is gone by mid March. I live in a forest, so I have snow that lingers because of the dense forest where the ground is shaded. We commonly have snow storms as late as mid-April, though none of that snow stays for more than a day.
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... How early in the year does it get below freezing and when is the last frost in Spring?
We will see freezing nights mid-November, sometimes a hard killing frost as early as late-October. But still days in the mid-40s up until December.
Consistent morning frost ends by mid-April. Though we may have sporadic frosts as late as mid-May. I saw a study where they suggested planting 1May, saying that at 1May you only had a 50% chance of seeing anymore frost. Old timers here stick to Memorial day. Nothing tender goes out before the end of May.
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... I also noticed that only 5% of the families are below poverty line - what do the locals to for a living? ...
The last big economy here died when modern refrigeration was invented, the ice-block carving and shipping industry ended. Nothing since that era has been able to support an economy here.
The nation's economic boom and housing bubble largely skipped Maine; with the exception of coastal tourist communities, and the Southern tip urban area [which is sometimes referred to as a bedroom suburb of Boston].
Most of Maine is forest. Our forests expand each year as old farm land is allowed to go back to forest. My town was once wheat fields [a century ago] but is today forest.
Our timber industry has been struggling. Mills start up and mills shut-down. It is cheaper to buy lumber from Canada rather than local lumber. Though I do know a few one-man sawmills that try to support their families that way [they would earn about the same if they were flipping burgers p/t].
We have service industries [banks, hospitals, government, universities, and retail], I know people who work in each of those.
We also have a lot of p/t seasonal folks [landscaping, construction, road maintenance, firewood cutting]. I know a lot of people who have multiple p/t seasonal jobs.
And then farming [most farmers I know who are supporting families via their farms are working between 5 and 80 acres].
We moved here with my pension [$1400/mo~] and my Dw's p/t job in a grocery. Living here, active socially and in community groups it seems that our income is slightly above median.
A regionally depressed economy with low wages keeps the cost-of-living down and it keeps taxes down. It has been a depressed economy for longer than one generation.
If you look at the tourist regions or the Southern urban corner; you will see higher incomes, higher priced homes and much higher cost-of-living. You will also see much higher taxes.
I have dear friends who live in Portland. They bring in three times [or more] than what anyone here brings in, and they pay a much higher percentage of their income to their cost-of-living and taxes.
I see eagle in the tree tops on my land. Beaver, deer, moose and turkey are here all the time. I step out of my house and I am in a forest. I have much greater personal freedoms here, than urbanites have.
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... Finally, how close are you to a metro area to be able to sell your produce? How long is the growing season? (I know, a million questions....)
20 to 25 minutes away is: an international airport, 2 hospitals, a state university, a couple small private colleges, shopping mall, and 6 Farmer's Markets.
We count on a 105 day growing season.
We are focusing on zone 4/5 perennials. Plant once and harvest for a life time. Our culture has focused a great deal on annuals, so you start from the beginning every year, which seems counter to where I wish to go.
I am glad that I did not settle in a area as bad as all that.
"really cold" I have lived in areas that were pretty cold. I could not do that for long, much better here
"bitting insects right thru fall" I have heard that happens in Alaska, but have not seen it here. I would have a terrible time living anywhere that had biting bugs spring thru fall.
"leaves to rake up" Thankfully we do not have that here either, I dont see how anyone can enjoy raking.
Here we do get some ice and snow, you get used to it.
"hot as Texas in summer"! Really! That is pretty hot. I have lived in Texas, that is really hot. I am sure glad that I do not live anywhere like what you describe.
You have fun down South
I think he was just trying to dissuade the mobs from moving here. Mac loves NH and has no problem handling all of the above.
City people might find living here to be a chore though. It definitely won't be easy, if most of our modern conveniences go away.
We lived in the South for many years, where I had chickens, started a greenhouse, and had vegetables and fruit almost year-round.
The problems were manyfold; many folks rushing to the South because of the warm climate; ordinances that became prohibitive - they actually thought that the fruit trees and blackberry vines in my front and side yards should be restricted, as all front yards should contain only grass that could not grow to over 1/4 of an inch in height, and they didn't like my chickens AT ALL (even though they were penned); lots of flooding that was increasing; humidity that made it difficult to work outside for long periods; too much required dependence on municipal and county services; no ability to protect my fruits and vegies from maurauding adults and children either legally or physically....
So we moved. We moved to Nebraska, where you can sink a well and put up a windmill, build a shop or garage or barn, without anyone's authorization. Where land is cheap and the houses are old and sturdy. Where people are hard-core self-sufficient, for the most part, and don't succor those who aren't so that they don't stay long. Where folks mind their own biznez. Where most folks carry and no one says a word. Where people who share fences work together to keep those fences upright. Where food is cheap and locally grown, and where you can grow your own without interference or fear of two-legged varmints. Where the closest Interstate and Wal Mart are 150 miles away. Where the wind blows ALL of the time, from spring zephyrs to howling blizzards. Where snow starts usually in November and stops about May. Where cows outnumber the people 10 to 1. Where no one goes unless they have a purpose.
We looked for three years for a place that people were moving away from; and that had all of the above qualities. Make no mistake, life is hard here, and striving toward self-sufficiency requires work. We are steadily striving to become completely self-sufficient - next up are the windmills for water pumps and power. (Although the sun is brilliant here most of the year, solar panels are all too frequently damaged by the wind {like Ron White says, "It's not THAT the wind is blowing, it's WHAT the wind is blowing!"} and hailstorms. ) Those who want to move to NE want to because there are jobs and cheap houses - in the eastern part of the State. Out here there is - no one, and nothing, that appeals to city slickers. We live on 60 acres of rolling hills, in a 100-year-old farmhouse, on the edge of a town of 149 people, with gravel roads where there ARE roads, and nothing much to look at from the 2-lane highway. We have chickens, a huge garden, wild turkeys and deer that wander through, the beginnings of an orchard, a greenhouse, cows, a sturdy and solid horse, a herd dog, and lots of work to do. And this is how we like it.
Come the Apocalypse, 2012, the failure of the Stock Market, the mass revolt and exodus of the populace from cities - or come nothing at all - we are quite content to be where we are, doing what we do.
'Scuze me... the town just trimmed 20 trees in the park and dumped them in my backyard because they know I have a woodburning stove, and they don't have the time, place, or personnel to burn them off. I have work to do... Have a nice day!
We lived in the South for many years, where I had chickens, started a greenhouse, and had vegetables and fruit almost year-round.
The problems were manyfold; many folks rushing to the South because of the warm climate; ordinances that became prohibitive - they actually thought that the fruit trees and blackberry vines in my front and side yards should be restricted, as all front yards should contain only grass that could not grow to over 1/4 of an inch in height, and they didn't like my chickens AT ALL (even though they were penned); lots of flooding that was increasing; humidity that made it difficult to work outside for long periods; too much required dependence on municipal and county services; no ability to protect my fruits and vegies from maurauding adults and children either legally or physically....
So we moved. We moved to Nebraska, where you can sink a well and put up a windmill, build a shop or garage or barn, without anyone's authorization. Where land is cheap and the houses are old and sturdy. Where people are hard-core self-sufficient, for the most part, and don't succor those who aren't so that they don't stay long. Where folks mind their own biznez. Where most folks carry and no one says a word. Where people who share fences work together to keep those fences upright. Where food is cheap and locally grown, and where you can grow your own without interference or fear of two-legged varmints. Where the closest Interstate and Wal Mart are 150 miles away. Where the wind blows ALL of the time, from spring zephyrs to howling blizzards. Where snow starts usually in November and stops about May. Where cows outnumber the people 10 to 1. Where no one goes unless they have a purpose.
We looked for three years for a place that people were moving away from; and that had all of the above qualities. Make no mistake, life is hard here, and striving toward self-sufficiency requires work. We are steadily striving to become completely self-sufficient - next up are the windmills for water pumps and power. (Although the sun is brilliant here most of the year, solar panels are all too frequently damaged by the wind {like Ron White says, "It's not THAT the wind is blowing, it's WHAT the wind is blowing!"} and hailstorms. ) Those who want to move to NE want to because there are jobs and cheap houses - in the eastern part of the State. Out here there is - no one, and nothing, that appeals to city slickers. We live on 60 acres of rolling hills, in a 100-year-old farmhouse, on the edge of a town of 149 people, with gravel roads where there ARE roads, and nothing much to look at from the 2-lane highway. We have chickens, a huge garden, wild turkeys and deer that wander through, the beginnings of an orchard, a greenhouse, cows, a sturdy and solid horse, a herd dog, and lots of work to do. And this is how we like it.
Come the Apocalypse, 2012, the failure of the Stock Market, the mass revolt and exodus of the populace from cities - or come nothing at all - we are quite content to be where we are, doing what we do.
'Scuze me... the town just trimmed 20 trees in the park and dumped them in my backyard because they know I have a woodburning stove, and they don't have the time, place, or personnel to burn them off. I have work to do... Have a nice day!
Great post! I especially relate to the "looking for a place that people were moving away from." That's one of my most important criterion. Looks as though I'll end up a couple of states north of you and on a smaller scale... but very similar setting. You make your area sound very appealing, though. Be careful with that.
(BTW, welcome back! I've missed your great posts.)
I would the best or one of the best places, would be where you have family, unless they live in a large populated area like a big city or big suburb. Also somewhere u don't need to travel far to get your necessities, like freshwater, maybe a clean lake and food.
SC Granny, Now why can't I get the town to do that here? I could use that fire wood. I got 9 cords to get cut and will buy more logs to cut, just for something to do.
It's fun to drive off the nasty bitting insects with a chain saw in evening. The black flies are out here, and tryin' ta' bit ME ;D lettem try.... they make fair compost in the garden as do the japanese bettle larva. Many dead today. I been rockin' which comes after tillin'. 2nd tillin' so far.
Bee Keepers ideas on cold are at -60 it's just chilly. And it don't get that chilly in Maine.
The work thing is different. To live here you need 3 paid jobs which only take 60 or so hours a week, and you still work another 40 to eat. One real gain to living here is you won't get over weight in this life time.
If anyone wants I harvested my 2nd batch of rocks. These are Free for the taking. Good solid NH rocks. They will make you as hard as they are too, so don't wait.
I suspect for many it would be very difficult for many to pack up and simply move to Montana, Idaho, or Wyoming. Seems there are issues everywhere e.g. west has water issues, north is cold, south is hot, etc. Is there one "best" location according to some computer calculation or some formula? Maybe. But everyone has a situation they are in that might put inhibitors.
Two of my inhibitors is my job and family. I have a decent sized family both nuclear and extended, my parents are going to need to be assisted as they are aging, I have a job that requires certification(s) that vary from state to state. It's OK, one my huge assets is my family, whom I live close to, and whom believe like us and see the world like us. THIS IS HUGE!
Then of course there are religious/spiritual issues which are ultimately most important. I don't feel called (at least not yet) to a mountain west state, and that of great significance to me. We're very involved with our church and feel very useful right now.
CAN I move. Sure. SHOULD I move? No, at least not now. Could I improve my situation by changing my location from the suburbs to a relatively nearby area with some acreage and a homestead that would allow us to be more-self sufficient and allow us to live at our retreat so-to-speak? Yes.
My point, not to sound all "relativistic" but we all have different situations (physically, mentally, socially, professionally, religiously, economically) that are limiters and have our individual situations. I find it sometimes tough to keep that perspective. Sure I'd love to "head out west" but it isn't really too practical or realistic for us RIGHT NOW.
Personally, I envision a place in the lower-midwest that would have maybe 10-40 acres, at least 5 acres in woods, a well, propane or natural gas well, at least 5 acres of pasture, an area that has good soil (for myself and others around me), some room for a garden, a barn or large shed, chicken coop, and a stream or pond. Yes I know that fallout could be a problem in this region and there are flaws, but it actually seems to have decent balance when considering the criteria.
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Mac loves NH and has no problem handling all of the above.
