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QB, i just want to let you know i find your posts immensely interesting, thoughtful, and encourages thoughts and ideas. Lincoln is one my favorite Presidents. It is interesting to me to see his actions from a moral/ethical perspective as you are doing which belong right here in this forum in my opinion How religious principles plays out in real life. Although his view of Black people’s humanity is disappointing, he had the fortitude to stop the spread the evil practice of slavery. It n comparison to Thomas Jefferson who fails in all respect.
Thank you, you are too kind. You are a great poster.
With that said...in regards to Lincoln and civil rights....
I think religion is a journey and where did you choose to go based on where you started. I'm sure some will disagree, but that is my thought for my life.
Lincoln started in 1809, Kentucky. A time and place not friendly to black rights. His father was racist as were the vast majority of adults that he encountered as a child. It would be easy for me to judge him negatively being born in 2001, Maryland where I had much better adult role models on race. Empathy requires that I don't necessarily accept his views, but that I try to place myself in his historical/cultural situation to better understand his thoughts and formation as a human throughout the years of his life.
People in the future with more changed/evolved morals will likely look back on people like me and be aghast. Yikes!
Lincoln grew or evolved as man throughout his life for the better on race issues.
The famous black civil and gender rights leader Sojourner Truth said of Lincoln: "Upon entering his reception room we found about a dozen persons in waiting, among them two coloured women. I had quite a pleasant time waiting until he was disengaged, and enjoyed his conversation with others; he showed as much kindness and consideration to the colored persons as to the white. One case was that of a colored woman who was sick and likely to be turned out of her house on account of her inability to pay her rent. The president listened to her with much attention, and spoke to her with kindness and tenderness."
When Lincoln visited the captured Confederate capital, just freed slaves crowded around him, tried to touch him, knelt before him, even tried to kiss his feet. How did Lincoln respond? Did he take credit? No. Lincoln gave God credit. This suggest to me, that Lincoln was growing with God. Lincoln told the just freed slaves "Don’t kneel to me. That is not right. You must kneel to God only, and thank him for the liberty you will hereafter enjoy. I am but God’s humble instrument; but you may rest assured that as long as I live no one shall put a shackle on your limbs, and you shall have all the rights which God has given to every other free citizen of this Republic."
Lincoln gives credit to God and tells the just freed slaves that they have rights from God and that they will soon get them from the government....great moment in US History.
Abraham Lincoln became the first sitting president to support black voting rights in his last ever public speech. John Wilkes Booth was in the audience and said: "That means n----- citizenship. Now, by God! I’ll put him through.” Booth shot Lincoln 3 days later.
To me....Lincoln is a story of growth...little education, but grew to great wisdom. From poverty, but grew to a successful lawyer and politician. From racism, but grew to emancipation, voting rights, and military service for blacks. Started out as a rebel of religion, seemed to have moved towards God with the second inaugural (*thanks spell check!*) address, his Peoria Address, and his visit to Richmond.
I look at Lincoln's life and I see myself and wish I could grow as much as he did on his path...that's why I respect Lincoln. I don't want to offend anyone, but I am not disappointed with Lincoln, I celebrate his growth from a poor place to start on a long path to a much better destination...and only wish I could do the same.
God has no race, no religion, no political leanings.
Therefore God does not see any of those either when God looks at us.
it is for us to do the same as that.
Divinity does not see race, does not see religion, does not see politics.
Divinity does not see nationality or country or culture or education, or wealth or lack of it, or success or lack of it.
someone once said, it is about seeing through the eyes of God.
seeing people as God sees us.
everyone is already equal in that regard, utterly and completely and wholly seen, beloved, and treasured by God. we don't have to do anything to earn that. nor can it be withheld from anyone either or doled out.
that is how we need to see others. and that is how we can also see ourselves.
Thank you, you are too kind. You are a great poster.
With that said...in regards to Lincoln and civil rights....
I think religion is a journey and where did you choose to go based on where you started. I'm sure some will disagree, but that is my thought for my life.
Lincoln started in 1809, Kentucky. A time and place not friendly to black rights. His father was racist as were the vast majority of adults that he encountered as a child. It would be easy for me to judge him negatively being born in 2001, Maryland where I had much better adult role models on race. Empathy requires that I don't necessarily accept his views, but that I try to place myself in his historical/cultural situation to better understand his thoughts and formation as a human throughout the years of his life.
People in the future with more changed/evolved morals will likely look back on people like me and be aghast. Yikes!
Lincoln grew or evolved as man throughout his life for the better on race issues.
The famous black civil and gender rights leader Sojourner Truth said of Lincoln: "Upon entering his reception room we found about a dozen persons in waiting, among them two coloured women. I had quite a pleasant time waiting until he was disengaged, and enjoyed his conversation with others; he showed as much kindness and consideration to the colored persons as to the white. One case was that of a colored woman who was sick and likely to be turned out of her house on account of her inability to pay her rent. The president listened to her with much attention, and spoke to her with kindness and tenderness."
When Lincoln visited the captured Confederate capital, just freed slaves crowded around him, tried to touch him, knelt before him, even tried to kiss his feet. How did Lincoln respond? Did he take credit? No. Lincoln gave God credit. This suggest to me, that Lincoln was growing with God. Lincoln told the just freed slaves "Don’t kneel to me. That is not right. You must kneel to God only, and thank him for the liberty you will hereafter enjoy. I am but God’s humble instrument; but you may rest assured that as long as I live no one shall put a shackle on your limbs, and you shall have all the rights which God has given to every other free citizen of this Republic."
Lincoln gives credit to God and tells the just freed slaves that they have rights from God and that they will soon get them from the government....great moment in US History.
Abraham Lincoln became the first sitting president to support black voting rights in his last ever public speech. John Wilkes Booth was in the audience and said: "That means n----- citizenship. Now, by God! I’ll put him through.” Booth shot Lincoln 3 days later.
To me....Lincoln is a story of growth...little education, but grew to great wisdom. From poverty, but grew to a successful lawyer and politician. From racism, but grew to emancipation, voting rights, and military service for blacks. Started out as a rebel of religion, seemed to have moved towards God with the second inaugural (*thanks spell check!*) address, his Peoria Address, and his visit to Richmond.
I look at Lincoln's life and I see myself and wish I could grow as much as he did on his path...that's why I respect Lincoln. I don't want to offend anyone, but I am not disappointed with Lincoln, I celebrate his growth from a poor place to start on a long path to a much better destination...and only wish I could do the same.
Thank you for your perspective, I enjoyed reading it. Had he not been shot we don’t know what else he might have accomplished
God has no race, no religion, no political leanings.
Therefore God does not see any of those either when God looks at us.
it is for us to do the same as that.
Divinity does not see race, does not see religion, does not see politics.
Divinity does not see nationality or country or culture or education, or wealth or lack of it, or success or lack of it.
someone once said, it is about seeing through the eyes of God.
seeing people as God sees us.
everyone is already equal in that regard, utterly and completely and wholly seen, beloved, and treasured by God. we don't have to do anything to earn that. nor can it be withheld from anyone either or doled out.
that is how we need to see others. and that is how we can also see ourselves.
So you want to ignore the elephant in the room, Hinduism which has influenced thoughts all over the world, as both dualism and non dualism? Where do you think Karma and reincarnation comes from which is being discussed extensively in these threads? Is it just ignorance or simply your aversion to it?
a person is not their skin color.
identifying a person (self or others) as a skin color, is not seeing the person for who they are
a person is not their religion
identifying a person (self or others) as their religion, is not seeing the person for who they are
those are a false identity, in the same way that a person (self or others) is not their body, and the person is not their emotions, and the person is not their thoughts. Nor is a person their political opinions, nor is a person their clothing, nor is a person their country.
regarding the ongoing perseverating preoccupation with race, to use phrase in bold above, "Is that just ignorance or simply your aversion to it?"
a person is not their skin color.
identifying a person (self or others) as a skin color, is not seeing the person for who they are
a person is not their religion
identifying a person (self or others) as their religion, is not seeing the person for who they are
those are a false identity, in the same way that a person (self or others) is not their body, and the person is not their emotions, and the person is not their thoughts. Nor is a person their political opinions, nor is a person their clothing, nor is a person their country.
regarding the ongoing perseverating preoccupation with race, to use phrase in bold above, "Is that just ignorance or simply your aversion to it?"
And yet, those people you are talking about probably self-identify as some label when asked.
Do you think that Martin Luther King didn't see himself as a Black man?
Do you think that Cesar Chavez didn't see himself as an Hispanic or Latino man?
I've worked with thousands of Black kids, hundreds and hundreds of Latino kids, and hundreds and hundreds of Asian kids. They seemed to know who they were and would often use the terms Black or Latino or Asian.
Do you think that if you went up to a typical American and asked, "What are your spiritual beliefs?" than most of them would not answer something like, "I'm catholic" (or Methodist or Episcopalian)?
Thank you, you are too kind. You are a great poster.
With that said...in regards to Lincoln and civil rights....
I think religion is a journey and where did you choose to go based on where you started. I'm sure some will disagree, but that is my thought for my life.
Lincoln started in 1809, Kentucky. A time and place not friendly to black rights. His father was racist as were the vast majority of adults that he encountered as a child. It would be easy for me to judge him negatively being born in 2001, Maryland where I had much better adult role models on race. Empathy requires that I don't necessarily accept his views, but that I try to place myself in his historical/cultural situation to better understand his thoughts and formation as a human throughout the years of his life.
People in the future with more changed/evolved morals will likely look back on people like me and be aghast. Yikes!
Lincoln grew or evolved as man throughout his life for the better on race issues.
The famous black civil and gender rights leader Sojourner Truth said of Lincoln: "Upon entering his reception room we found about a dozen persons in waiting, among them two coloured women. I had quite a pleasant time waiting until he was disengaged, and enjoyed his conversation with others; he showed as much kindness and consideration to the colored persons as to the white. One case was that of a colored woman who was sick and likely to be turned out of her house on account of her inability to pay her rent. The president listened to her with much attention, and spoke to her with kindness and tenderness."
When Lincoln visited the captured Confederate capital, just freed slaves crowded around him, tried to touch him, knelt before him, even tried to kiss his feet. How did Lincoln respond? Did he take credit? No. Lincoln gave God credit. This suggest to me, that Lincoln was growing with God. Lincoln told the just freed slaves "Don’t kneel to me. That is not right. You must kneel to God only, and thank him for the liberty you will hereafter enjoy. I am but God’s humble instrument; but you may rest assured that as long as I live no one shall put a shackle on your limbs, and you shall have all the rights which God has given to every other free citizen of this Republic."
Lincoln gives credit to God and tells the just freed slaves that they have rights from God and that they will soon get them from the government....great moment in US History.
Abraham Lincoln became the first sitting president to support black voting rights in his last ever public speech. John Wilkes Booth was in the audience and said: "That means n----- citizenship. Now, by God! I’ll put him through.” Booth shot Lincoln 3 days later.
To me....Lincoln is a story of growth...little education, but grew to great wisdom. From poverty, but grew to a successful lawyer and politician. From racism, but grew to emancipation, voting rights, and military service for blacks. Started out as a rebel of religion, seemed to have moved towards God with the second inaugural (*thanks spell check!*) address, his Peoria Address, and his visit to Richmond.
I look at Lincoln's life and I see myself and wish I could grow as much as he did on his path...that's why I respect Lincoln. I don't want to offend anyone, but I am not disappointed with Lincoln, I celebrate his growth from a poor place to start on a long path to a much better destination...and only wish I could do the same.
Lincoln is not the unblemished, purely altruistic saint that some make him out to be. But he was hardly an amoral Machiavellian whose sole motivation was to reunite the Union, as much as some wish to believe—particularly Southern sympathizers still upset that they lost the “state’s right” to buy and sell other human beings.
I had never known about the religious and spiritual details of religious life, beyond the fact that he was at least some form of nominal Christian like all of our presidents to-date. So I thank you for sharing that information.
And yet, those people you are talking about probably self-identify as some label when asked.Do you think that Martin Luther King didn't see himself as a Black man?Do you think that Cesar Chavez didn't see himself as an Hispanic or Latino man?I've worked with thousands of Black kids, hundreds and hundreds of Latino kids, and hundreds and hundreds of Asian kids. They seemed to know who they were and would often use the terms Black or Latino or Asian.Do you think that if you went up to a typical American and asked, "What are your spiritual beliefs?" than most of them would not answer something like, "I'm catholic" (or Methodist or Episcopalian)?
certainly people use labels. i have no problem with labels.
but they are a distraction from practicing a path of religion and spirituality.
rather than an expression of it
same goes for politics, same goes for current events, same goes for social services, same goes for civil rights.
those topics and diversions are a distraction from (discussing or engaging in) paths of religion and spirituality.
i had a friend when we were in our late 30s. She was intensely preoccupied with what she perceived as her "lack" of education, her "lack" of being able to use big words, her "lack" of college degree, her "lack" of high powered career.
all i could keep saying in my head, and sometimes to her with words, is Ronnie none of those make someone a better person.
certainly people use labels. i have no problem with labels.
but they are a distraction from practicing a path of religion and spirituality.
rather than an expression of it
same goes for politics, same goes for current events, same goes for social services, same goes for civil rights.
those topics and diversions are a distraction from (discussing or engaging in) paths of religion and spirituality.
Perhaps you're not really behaving as a normal human...because humans have a natural tendency to label and classify things...to an extent, it's how we organize our lives. But I have a feeling that, in reality, you're against using a classification word, but probably not against intellectually classifying things. After all, you constantly post about various, specific religions (as if you are an expert on practically all of them).
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) address, his Peoria Address, and his visit to Richmond.
