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Please pardon my possible ignorance. I don't have a great deal of experience, but I do read a lot and I load my own with knock-out dies for 6mm Rem, 7mm-08, and 7mm Rem BR.
Why the big jump? I understand that people who actually use their rifles away from a range might not want to jam bullets into the lands, but even twenty thousandths seems a long ways away.
Basically a lot depends on the bullet design. Berger bullets may perform great seated right off the lands or even in the lands however they often perform as far as 150 though or more off the lands. And this is important for folks that use a magazine and are limited in COAL to the max length of the box.
Federal Terminal Ascents are described thus- "Terminal Ascent bullets all have a boattail construction, a secant ogive and a small meplat (i.e., where the flattened area at the front of the bullet meets the polymer tip) to further reduce drag and improve ballistic performance."
So using the same powder charge and seating .20 though (close to lands) provided poor results. Seating at Federals factory COAL proved much better results but with a flyer. Federal factory ammo went into one tiny clover leaf- less than a .25" group.
I also called Federal and spoke a tech in their ammunition center and he confirmed these bullets like a lot of jump. That's why the are seated that way at the factory. Unfortunately he couldn't (or wouldn't) tell me where their proprietary powder burns on the relative burn charts. And they only tested with Alliant powders which unfortunately are unobtanium right now.
Basically a lot depends on the bullet design. Berger bullets may perform great seated right off the lands or even in the lands however they often perform as far as 150 though or more off the lands. And this is important for folks that use a magazine and are limited in COAL to the max length of the box.
Federal Terminal Ascents are described thus- "Terminal Ascent bullets all have a boattail construction, a secant ogive and a small meplat (i.e., where the flattened area at the front of the bullet meets the polymer tip) to further reduce drag and improve ballistic performance."
So using the same powder charge and seating .20 though (close to lands) provided poor results. Seating at Federals factory COAL proved much better results but with a flyer. Federal factory ammo went into one tiny clover leaf- less than a .25" group.
Many thanks. I am obviously out of date (my 6mm Rem has too slow a twist for VLD bullets, anyway).
Been working on my new .280AI with a Brux barrel 1:8.5 twist. I snagged a bunch of Federal Terminal Ascent 155gr bullets, most pulled and 2 new boxes (100). This is the preferred bullet I want to use in this rifle. Federal factory loaded terminal ascent ammo is widely held to be the gold standard for .280Ackley. In fact it was the ONLY rounds that would group in my old .280AI Mauser. None of my handlands sans one came close.
I did all the preliminary measurements with a stony point gauge to accurately figure out bullet distance to fully seated and started loading at 20 thou off the lands.
It's widely held that 4831SC is a good powder to start, so I worked up a first go going up .5gr increments- 5 shots each. It was pretty horrible. Dismal to be exact. No discernable place of pattern or happiness. So went home, pulled my one last factory Federal 155 terminal ascent bullets and did a COAL measurement. They are seated much, much deeper. Like 120 thou off the lands.
So I worked up another small test group, starting with the velocity area I want based on my first trial and loaded 18 rounds, 3 groups each of different charge weights. All with a big ass jump to the lands. Groups got better, but I noticed 3 groups where two would touch, one land upper right almost an inch. 3 of them. I let the barrel rest 3 minutes between shots and I have a temp gauge on the barrel.
Next I decided to run a different powder- a little slower burn- N165. Loaded up 18 at different charge weights, 3 shots each at a coarse .5gr increment. Same damn thing.. I had 3 groups with 2 touching and a flyer at 1 o'clock. One group did clover leaf.
At this point I'm not too pleased. A custom barrel should not behave like this and my reloading habits are really, really anal. I check bullet run-out- everything. So I called my gunsmith and I take the rifle back to him. He's the one who blueprinted the action, reamed the chamber.. He took the rifle to the range yesterday. He had 4 different factory load offerings including Factory Federal terminal ascent. He fired 3 round groups. 2 of the factory rounds were 140 grains and they looked like a shotgun pattern. Okay- the twist doesn't like light 140gr loads. He shot a third that were Hornady ELDX- 162gr I think. Same pattern as mine- 2 touching, 1 flyer at 1 o'clock. Then he fired 3 Federal Factory terminal ascent bullets. All in the same frekin hole. A little clover leaf.
We're both scratching our heads. It apparently likes the bullets that I have, but apparently it is finicky with what powder to use. We agreed that I should use a faster burn rate powder to test, so I've got some H4350, IMR4831 and StaBall 6.5 I'm going to play with. If this doesn't work we're going to meet with another gunsmith in town (super well regarded) and see if he can trouble shoot it. If that doesn't work a call to Brux may be in order.
Think we found the culprit with my Brux barrel. I had a friend of mine (also an accomplished shooter) run 2 charge weights (6 rounds each) down range today. His groups are a mirror image of what me and my gunsmith shot. A couple touching and a flyer- or a 1"+ triangle.
I went to my gunsmith right after- showed him the targets and he took the rifle in the back, cleaned it and borescoped it. After about 15minutes he called me back and said run this 35cal bronze brush slowly through and back out the barrel. Sure enough the brush drags in one spot about 10" from the crown. Did it 3 times- you can feel a rough spot. He said it looks like a small jag of metal not cleaned up after the rifling was cut.
Copper was getting stripped off the bullets and he can see the copper build up at that point forward- not so much in the chamber end. So my homework is to remove all the copper (first) and then we'll scope it and photograph the spot and get a hold of Brux. I may be testing their customer service on this barrel.
I thoroughly cleaned the bore down to shiny metal, took it back to my gunsmith who bore scoped it and lo and behold a 6” plus gall stripe right down one of the riflings. Brux cuts their barrels, and possibly the forced pressure oil fritzed along that section and/or a piece of shaving got dragged.
I’ll be testing Brux’s customer service.
Well I’m thankful it wasn’t my handloads causing the issues. Or me the shooter.
Got my barrel back from Brux. It may not have been properly lapped when it left the factory.
Took it out today and loaded some rounds at the same charge but with varying seating depths from .015 off the lands to factory COAL- 3 each, 15 rounds total. I think my issues are resolved.
Under .5" and I may have shanked a few shots. It was warm at the range today. This rifle is good to go.
I have been reloading for about 5 years now, and I can normally find whatever load data I need. The 62g Hornady BTHP is a different story. I can find data for just about every other 62g round except BTHP.
I did some research, and found Midsouth to be the only place that actually, occasionaly have this in stock.
Any suggestions would be helpful. Looking for best powder, charge weight and COL for a 10.5" AR pistol. I will use them in my 16" AR as well.
Thanks in advance. If nothing else I will use the 62g FMJ data.
Last edited by duckriverkid; Yesterday at 10:46 AM..
Reason: More info
I have been reloading for about 5 years now, and I can normally find whatever load data I need. The 62g Hornady BTHP is a different story. I can find data for just about every other 62g round except BTHP.
I did some research, and found Midsouth to be the only place that actually, occasionaly have this in stock.
Any suggestions would be helpful. Looking for best powder, charge weight and COL for a 10.5" AR pistol. I will use them in my 16" AR as well.
Thanks in advance. If nothing else I will use the 62g FMJ data.
Have you checked the Hornady manual?
If you don’t have it, and can’t otherwise find that exact bullet, don’t stress over it. Plenty of available data on 62 grain bullets out there. Start at the minimum, and work your way up.
Use the recommend COL for a 62 grain bullet. Load a few and check. Fit in the magazine? Hand cycle work fine? Then shoot a few.
I’m confident you’ll get it sorted. . .
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.223 62g Hornady BTHP Load Data
