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thats not at all what I said, you cherry picked my statement...i said "being rich in the suburbs is cool....but when you are poor in the suburbs its a different experience" which is true...no car, isolated and stuck in place, no stores or public transportation nearby...
....its like an equilibrium...on one end many of the hyper urban areas are drug infested and isolating....on the other end, many of the hyper suburban/rural areas....drug infested and isolating. Not all.
where is the lie?
You're in Maryland....Would you raise your kids in parts of Prince George or Glen Burnie or Dundalk? Do a lot of them not end up as the customer base?
You mentioned middle class people, not just poor people, in the suburbs. And no, I wouldn't raise my kids in the places you named. Suburbs are not uniformly wonderful, just as cities are not uniformly bad.
You are also grossly generalizing people that grew up in the city....unless you think all criminals are from Urban environments. I assure you, that is not the case.
No I am not. I was making a factual statement. Jails are full of people from cities, and they're full of immigrants and full of people who grew up in rural areas, as well as people who're from suburbia. Those statements aren't mutually exclusive. The point is that there's enough criminals and otherwise scummy people who grew up in big cities to make your statement sound absurd.
FWIW I grew up in the center of a big city, and not in an upscale area either. Not a particularly bad area either, just kind of a 'normal' urban area. Honestly, I saw a lot of stuff growing up including crime, violence and drug use. But the lasting impression probably was actually how grimy and dirty everything was. Just garbage, the smell of ****, dog crap on the streets.
I know when I first visited a girlfriend in her suburban area in my early 20s, and being incredibly impressed by how nice it was. You could tell that was an environment where people cared about things and tried to ensure they're in good shape.
Philly, Chicago & DC aren't considered "safe" to the vast majority of people living in suburbs across the US even if they have less proportional rough spots and are statistically safer, so that point is moot.
Perception (especially in the context of raising kids) plays a way bigger role on where to live than statistics.
I don't think this is remotely true. Most people are smart enough to grasp that all cities are on a continuum in terms if neighborhood conditions, even if they aren't urbanites. And true urbanites understand that fact even more.
I don't think this is remotely true. Most people are smart enough to grasp that all cities are on a continuum in terms if neighborhood conditions, even if they aren't urbanites. And true urbanites understand that fact even more.
True urbanites understand that, but the vast majority of people aren't true urbanites.
Most people are smart enough, but that doesn't inherently translate into reality. People are inherently emotional and with that comes prejudice/preconceptions. Imho it's extremely naive to think a substantial amount of people don't blacklist entire cities simply off of word of mouth or their *extremely* limited experience.
Philly, Chicago & DC aren't considered "safe" to the vast majority of people living in suburbs across the US even if they have less proportional rough spots and are statistically safer, so that point is moot.
Perception (especially in the context of raising kids) plays a way bigger role on where to live than statistics.
I get what you're saying, but the statement I responded to was "I would raise kids only in the suburbs if the city was Detroit, Philadelphia, Baltimore, St. Louis — of the cities I know at least something about. Chicago, San Fran, DC, and NYC (obviously) I’d go to the city. Maybe Minneapolis/St Paul."
I feel that Philly belongs in the second group of cities as opposed to the first.
I'll add my observation around two cities that I've lived in, for ~10 years each.
Dallas: as a twenty-something to early 30 something, I lived the majority of my 10 years there in Uptown Dallas, which is probably the most urban and walkable of Dallas neighborhoods - bars, restaurants, all condo buildings, etc. There were no families there, at all. It was all 20's-30's singles or DINKs. The occasional 40+ divorcee. No children, anywhere, in Uptown or Downtown Dallas. Once you wanted to have kids and/or a proper house, you moved to the suburbs (most likely), or (if you had enough money) to one of the in-town suburban-style neighborhoods like the M-Streets, Lakewood or Preston Hollow.
NYC: contrast that with Hoboken/NYC, there are tons of families with kids living in tight quarters in urban neighborhoods. Hoboken is 50% families with kids under 10. Many Brooklyn & Manhattan neighborhoods are similar. The striking difference was that in Dallas the expectation was that you "age out" of the city, but that is not a thing here. You may move to the suburbs for cost considerations, but many people do that do so 'reluctantly'. And once the kids hit ~8-10, the odds of moving out drop considerably.
To get to my main point, I don't think I could live in the core of Dallas with my kids, because they would have no other kids in the neighborhood to play with. That place was designed solely for young, single people.
There are not many metros where I would live in the core city. The few include Charleston WV, Charleston SC, Savannah, Houston, Fort Worth, Kansas City, and Colorado Springs. Even so with Charleston SC and Savannah I would probably put my kids in private schools. I live outside Baton Rouge and most of Baton Rouge is of a suburban character, with a density lower than many Washington DC or Los Angeles suburbs, but would need to be able to afford private schools. For Houston it would be a more suburban type, low density area within the city, not downtown for example.
Cities I've visited where I would DEF NOT live inside the core city...
Baltimore
Washington DC
Philadelphia
NYC
Los Angeles
Las Vegas
Miami
Atlanta
St. Louis
Columbus
Jacksonville
Orlando
New Orleans
Memphis
There are not many metros where I would live in the core city. The few include Charleston WV, Charleston SC, Savannah, Houston, Fort Worth, Kansas City, and Colorado Springs. Even so with Charleston SC and Savannah I would probably put my kids in private schools. I live outside Baton Rouge and most of Baton Rouge is of a suburban character, with a density lower than many Washington DC or Los Angeles suburbs, but would need to be able to afford private schools. For Houston it would be a more suburban type, low density area within the city, not downtown for example.
Cities I've visited where I would DEF NOT live inside the core city...
Baltimore
Washington DC
Philadelphia
NYC
Los Angeles
Las Vegas
Miami
Atlanta
St. Louis
Columbus
Jacksonville
Orlando
New Orleans
Memphis
I honestly wouldn't have a problem raising my kid in NYC. The crime there is nowhere nearly as bad as the media would make it seem and there are plenty of safe areas to raise a family. The schools are meh, but they're often so big you can always find a way to succeed. There are also a lot of exam schools, so if your kid excels, they'll be in a top tier high school.
Even better is that when the kid gets old enough to walk places on their own, you won't have to drive them to school activities. It's really a win-win. Outside of a few rough neighborhoods, I'd have no problem raising my kid in NYC.
I don’t know of any I’d do that in, unless it’s sort of an inherently suburban place.
I’ll admit I don’t have much experience with really urban areas aside from visiting, so I actually don’t know how to raise a family in an urban core.
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