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Providence? "Blows away?" I like the city, but my Lord the boosting of that city is really starting to get out of hand since so many Bostonians "rediscovered" it after getting priced out.
Yes Providence is significantly denser than Cleveland or Cincinnati or St Louis
Providence+Central Fall+ Pawtucket is 28 sq miles and has 288,000 which is as many people as 61 sq mile St Louis.
Throw in North Providence and 34 sq miles at 322,000 (greater than Cincinnati in under 1/2 the area)
369,000 in 48 (E. Providence) sq miles which is as populous as Cleveland in 62% of the area (7,700 ppsm bs 4,900)
It’s is significantly denser than those Midwestern cities. It’s just a fact.
I also wonder if that is the case with Milwaukee, Providence and Buffalo due to the fact that along with Hartford, those are the 4 smallest 1 million person plus metro areas in land area in the country. So, I think this is an aspect that has to be considered when cities/metro areas are being compared to each other.
I 100 percent think thst is the case. Smaller overall blue collar metros look like they, for the most part, started to turn around their distressed inner city neighborhoods sooner.
Though funny you mention Buffalo. Because to me Buffalo is a mix between Cleveland/Detroit/St. Louis and Milwaukee.
Buffalo, as much as that city is turning itself around, probably is closer to being Milwaukee in terms of least abandonment than the other three. At the same time Buffalo (and Niagara Falls) has more Cleveland/Detroit/St. Louis type areas than even Milwaukee.
Take out the Mon Valley 'suburban" Pittsburgh and Buffalo/Niagara seems like the area within a NE state that is most in the process of trying to reintroduce life to forgotten neighborhoods like you are (slowly) seeing in places like Cleveland/Detroit/St Louis.
Last edited by ClevelandBrown; 10-02-2023 at 08:39 PM..
Milwaukee and Providence really blow away Cleveland, Cincinnati, St Louis, Detroit, KC, and outpaces Pittsburgh too in dense (10,000+/15,000+ppsm tracts) and even Buffalo surpasses that first group significantly.
Most “nice” Cleveland/St Louis neighborhoods are 7-10k ppsm and Cincy/Detroit is like 4-8
Assuming Wikipedia has been updated properly, these are St. Louis' neighborhoods with densities of 10k or more:
Peabody–Darst–Webbe - 12k*
Shaw - 12k
Benton Park West - 11k
DeBaliviere Place - 11k
Gravois Park - 11k
Tower Grove East - 11k
Columbus Square - 10k*
Dutchtown - 10k
-----
Southhampton - 9.5k
Holly Hills - 9.1k
*These neighborhoods are majority low income and/or mixed income housing. I included Southampton and Holly Hills to round out the top 10, even though they're both below the threshold.
I'm frankly surprised at some of the results, but considering St. Louis' typically tiny neighborhood boundaries, I suppose I shouldn't be.
A lot of our marque neighborhoods also don't make the cut due to the land usage inside of their official neighborhood boundaries. The Central West End, our most populous neighborhood, only has a density of 8.8k, but it also has the entire Washington University Medical Campus, which includes Barnes Jewish Hospital among others. That's a lot of land that's just simply not residential.
Providence? "Blows away?" I like the city, but my Lord the boosting of that city is really starting to get out of hand since so many Bostonians "rediscovered" it after getting priced out.
Its more than Bostonians lol. Lots of Northeasterns, especially here in NYC area LOVE Providence. I like the city a lot too. I don’t think people oversell it by any means.
I 100 percent think thst is the case. Smaller overall blue collar metros look like they, for the most part, started to turn around their distressed inner city neighborhoods sooner.
Though funny you mention Buffalo. Because to me Buffalo is a mix between Cleveland/Detroit/St. Louis and Milwaukee.
Buffalo, as much as that city is turning itself around, probably is closer to being Milwaukee in terms of least abandonment than the other three. At the same time Buffalo (and Niagara Falls) has more Cleveland/Detroit/St. Louis type areas than even Milwaukee.
Take out the Mon Valley 'suburban" Pittsburgh and Buffalo/Niagara seems like the area within a NE state that is most in the process of trying to reintroduce life to forgotten neighborhoods like you are (slowly) seeing in places like Cleveland/Detroit/St Louis.
50% of the population of Buffalo (city only) lives in tracts of 10k or greater, with 10% in tracts of over 15k, peaking at 18.4k. The most dense areas span all income levels, with the highest densities NW of downtown. The total citywide density is 6.9k in 40.4 square miles (land only).
Every side of the city has tracts exceeding 10k, including a near-continuous cone of 10k+ concentrations projecting north from downtown continuing all the way to beyond the city limits. Even one of the most abandoned sections of the city (Broadway-Fillmore on the East Side) saw some Census tract populations increase by over 50% in the last decade, with Census tract densities increasing from less than 7k to around 12k.
The downtown core itself is not one of the population dense areas, as for decades it was strictly a commercial, entertainment, and office area of the city. There is ongoing construction and planned developments that could potentially boost levels near 10k by 2030, but realistically it would take several additional developments beyond what has been proposed to lift levels to 10k. Many neighborhoods immediately adjacent to downtown (Allentown, West Side) have densities already exceeding 10k, and at least one other adjacent neighborhood will exceed 10k by 2030 based on ongoing construction and plans (Medical Center/Fruit Belt).
Last edited by RocketSci; 10-03-2023 at 02:52 PM..
Assuming Wikipedia has been updated properly, these are St. Louis' neighborhoods with densities of 10k or more:
Peabody–Darst–Webbe - 12k*
Shaw - 12k
Benton Park West - 11k
DeBaliviere Place - 11k
Gravois Park - 11k
Tower Grove East - 11k
Columbus Square - 10k*
Dutchtown - 10k
-----
Southhampton - 9.5k
Holly Hills - 9.1k
*These neighborhoods are majority low income and/or mixed income housing. I included Southampton and Holly Hills to round out the top 10, even though they're both below the threshold.
I'm frankly surprised at some of the results, but considering St. Louis' typically tiny neighborhood boundaries, I suppose I shouldn't be.
A lot of our marque neighborhoods also don't make the cut due to the land usage inside of their official neighborhood boundaries. The Central West End, our most populous neighborhood, only has a density of 8.8k, but it also has the entire Washington University Medical Campus, which includes Barnes Jewish Hospital among others. That's a lot of land that's just simply not residential.
Providence city wide Density is 10,400/sq mile for reference. At 18.4 sq miles.
So yes, I was accurate. Providence has swaths of 20k ppsm across its S/W sides.
Most rust belt cities really don’t have that sort of density. Even if it may surprise people
There were two other census tract with a density over 20k, with several in the 17-just under 20k range.
I'll have to keep looking, but the closest I've seen so far is a tract in the Lower West Side of Buffalo was just under 19k and one on Syracuse's North Side was a little over 19k.
There were two other census tract with a density over 20k, with several in the 17-just under 20k range.
I'll have to keep looking, but the closest I've seen so far is a tract in the Lower West Side of Buffalo was just under 19k and one on Syracuse's North Side was a little over 19k.
but I don't think it is viewed as being Rust Belt.
Syracuse is another city that’s a generation or maybe two older than the traditional rust belt. As it was built on more light industry this a walking town while especially Detroit and Cleveland were streetcar towns
And Cincinnati, well Downtown, OTR and the West end simply lost 88% of its 1880 population.
Last edited by btownboss4; 10-03-2023 at 05:12 PM..
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