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But I question how OC can really be part of this conversation given its miniscule black population. Im with you on the Long Beach/Gateway Cities/Carson area, but I just dont see it in OC. Even the heavily Hispanic areas of OC tend to be somewhat isolated (specifically Santa Ana). Of course OC has very high integration among Asians and Whites and that is probably the highest in the country. I worked in Garden Grove for years and I remember we all used to specifically mention when we saw a black person because you could go a couple of days without seeing one. That was a long time ago, but Southern California is less black now than then.
And that’s a good point and I won’t pretend like it isn’t. Though I have to say I simply disagree with the Hispanic thing. Hispanics seem to integrate very well in OC with the general crowd. And to the lack of blacks inOC, like I said, great point but I would say that just because they don’t live in OC, that doesn’t stop LA from being SOCIALLY integrated. Generally speaking, where they do exist they integrate fairly well. By American standards of course which doesn’t say much. Yes you have some high profile elitist areas in LA I already mentioned above why this doesn’t distort my view of LA.
You didn't, AsAbove used the 105 marker (I thought he used I 10 and think he used that one in the other post). To be fair, the 105 is much better than the I10, but it still takes away well more than half of the metro. Yes, experiences are experiences so I don't dispute yours or anyone else's. What I'n dispute is splitting a metro in half or a third. Which you didn't do, AASB did, I grouped because of agreement.
Even if you argue that nothing north of Downtown LA is as integrated as any side in HOU (which is one I'd agree with), I would also say nothing in Houston is as integrated as the southern LA/LB/northern OC area (especially socially). And considering the latter holds a higher percentage of the population, I find it weird to not include it/separate it.
On a separate note, I will also dispute Austin. I love throwing Austin as a tech bro hub as much as anyone, but I find it to be making quick jumps to integration. I guess this was expected since its growing so fast. Not necessarily residentially but definitely socially.
I didn't suggest any side of Houston is more integrated than anything north of Downtown LA. I don't think you can say any city in America as whole is truly integrated as such. I think you can break cities down to specific areas when it comes to integration and segregation. I certainly wouldn't suggest East of 45( Houston) is more integrated than all of North of I-10 (LA). But the point I'm making is Houston has areas of the city are just as integrated if not more culturally and socially than what's in LA's most integrated communities.
And I also have to agree with Above when mentioning OC anything. White and Asian people are very much heavily integrated. More than anywhere I've ever been in the country including Houston. But I didn't see Hispanics integrated as much and definitely didn't see Black people as integrated AT ALL. And even though Black people are represented better throughout the metro it still pales in comparison to Houston.
Which is one of my main reasons in picking Houston over LA. I think ethnic groups that are here are more evenly distributed in integrated spaces than in LA. Which in my experiences creates a more fluent natural exchange of cultures when it's that evenly represented.
Just compare Houston's 3 most diverse zip codes to LA's 3 most diverse zip codes and both clearly are very diverse but Houston's diverse zip codes are more evenly represented.
Which honestly living in the Energy Corridor and being being drenched in the most diverse areas of Houston's metro I don't think you can truly say Southern LA-Long Beach is even more noticeably integrated than that part of Houston. Southwest/ Fort Bend/ Energy Corridor area is a pretty big area of Houston too.
And in what category is Austin making quick jumps to integration? Again each and every time I've gone to Austin it still screams predominately WHITE spaces in the more popular areas of the city. Specific Asian groups tend to assimilate more into those spaces than Hispanics and Black people though. Whenever I see more Black homeless people in the city center than I do actual tax paying Black Austinites in those same spaces than that's a problem. So I can't say a city with that dynamic is quickly integrating to a respectable level.
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And that’s a good point and I won’t pretend like it isn’t. Though I have to say I simply disagree with the Hispanic thing. Hispanics seem to integrate very well in OC with the general crowd. And to the lack of blacks inOC, like I said, great point but I would say that just because they don’t live in OC, that doesn’t stop LA from being SOCIALLY integrated. Generally speaking, where they do exist they integrate fairly well. By American standards of course which doesn’t say much. Yes you have some high profile elitist areas in LA I already mentioned above why this doesn’t distort my view of LA.
I don't think Black people in LA integrate fairly well even by American standards. Maybe Westcoast standards since Black people don't have a big presence in that part of the country but compared to cities in every other region of America it's kind of slim pickens. That's not to say LA has some sort of race issue with Black Americans differently than other cities. I had no issues what's so ever in LA. Actually had 2 uncomfortable incidents dealing with racism in San Francisco and Palo Alto but none in LA. But still Black people are integrated but not heavily represented in a lot of spaces when stacked against cities in the south or even cities in the northeast like NYC/ D.C. or Philly.
I didn't suggest any side of Houston is more integrated than anything north of Downtown LA. I don't think you can say any city in America as whole is truly integrated as such. I think you can break cities down to specific areas when it comes to integration and segregation. I certainly wouldn't suggest East of 45( Houston) is more integrated than all of North of I-10 (LA). But the point I'm making is Houston has areas of the city are just as integrated if not more culturally and socially than what's in LA's most integrated communities.
And I also have to agree with Above when mentioning OC anything. White and Asian people are very much heavily integrated. More than anywhere I've ever been in the country including Houston. But I didn't see Hispanics integrated as much and definitely didn't see Black people as integrated AT ALL. And even though Black people are represented better throughout the metro it still pales in comparison to Houston.
Which is one of my main reasons in picking Houston over LA. I think ethnic groups that are here are more evenly distributed in integrated spaces than in LA. Which in my experiences creates a more fluent natural exchange of cultures when it's that evenly represented.
Just compare Houston's 3 most diverse zip codes to LA's 3 most diverse zip codes and both clearly are very diverse but Houston's diverse zip codes are more evenly represented.
Which honestly living in the Energy Corridor and being being drenched in the most diverse areas of Houston's metro I don't think you can truly say Southern LA-Long Beach is even more noticeably integrated than that part of Houston. Southwest/ Fort Bend/ Energy Corridor area is a pretty big area of Houston too.
And in what category is Austin making quick jumps to integration? Again each and every time I've gone to Austin it still screams predominately WHITE spaces in the more popular areas of the city. Specific Asian groups tend to assimilate more into those spaces than Hispanics and Black people though. Whenever I see more Black homeless people in the city center than I do actual tax paying Black Austinites in those same spaces than that's a problem. So I can't say a city with that dynamic is quickly integrating to a respectable level.
I don't think Black people in LA integrate fairly well even by American standards. Maybe Westcoast standards since Black people don't have a big presence in that part of the country but compared to cities in every other region of America it's kind of slim pickens. That's not to say LA has some sort of race issue with Black Americans differently than other cities. I had no issues what's so ever in LA. Actually had 2 uncomfortable incidents dealing with racism in San Francisco and Palo Alto but none in LA. But still Black people are integrated but not heavily represented in a lot of spaces when stacked against cities in the south or even cities in the northeast like NYC/ D.C. or Philly.
As someone in Austin- Pflugerville and Round Rock are the spots. The majority of the city East of I-35 and North of the Colorado River and between I-35 and Mopac/North of 183. As well as The area, around UT Campus, and South of the River/between MoPac and I-35 are integrated. Although South of the River, I'm least knowledgeable and I know it's largely White/Hispanic (90%+). The cities along I-35 going down to San Marcos have pretty good Hispanic/White integration. Throw in Riverside and The Domain and this captures most of the cities' diversity. West of MoPac is very white, like overwhelmingly so and this only changes when 183, cross MoPac heading towards Georgetown/Leander, which are still predominantly white but not overwhelmingly so.
What helps Austin and doesn't help Houston, is that the Black and Asian population especially the latter are the fastest growing population's in Austin and the least represented throughout the metro area. The Asian population especially will increase a lot throughout the city, as UT is essentially 31% White, 29% Hispanic and 28% Asian, with 5% of the school being Black, and 7% Other. A significant percent of this population is staying in the area, too. Compare this with the MSA- 48% White, 32% Hispanic, 8% Black, 8% Asian, 3% Other.
I expect by 2030, it will be something like 42% White, 32% Hispanic, 9% Black, 12% Asian, 5% Other.
Houston's fastest growing population is Asian and Hispanic. Hispanic being 47.6% of total growth, and the largest group now. The Hispanic population is more diverse, than previously but it still means, in the long run, Houston might become less diverse if the Hispanic population continues to outgrow, it's current size. I could definitely see Hispanic growth declining outright just because all Hispanic countries are nearing or at, a 2.1 fertility rate, which means the migration pushes may lessen.
Last edited by NigerianNightmare; 04-27-2022 at 11:08 AM..
Here’s what I know. Austin currently integrates well within social groups. Whether it used to or not, that for others to decide. And does this reflect in the residential? Not really. But this thread is about social integration.
And to be fair, yes Austin has Lake Travis and similar elitist communities that are worse than Woodlands, Frisco’s etc. And LA has communities every more so than those found in Austin.
Also, I’m not calling Austin more socially integrated than Houston. I’m saying that the “Austin is for white people” rhetoric isn’t always true. In some cases, yes. But as far as social groups are concerned, different ethnicity blend in fairly well. Now was it always that way? I don’t know.
And just I’m not doing this for LA, I don’t judge Austin solely from those elitist groups you find when there’s a lot of population otherwise. If someone judged the Houston area specifically from what is found north of IAH, meaning Springwood, Woodlands, Conroe, etc. then it wouldn’t look like Houston as a whole. I’m going to be fair and do the same to LA and Austin.
Either of these 3 are subjective because they’re all socially integrated by American standards. Now if you bring Chicago, most of Alabama, Detroit and some others into the equation then it would be a different story.
I've been curious about this too.
In my experience even when cities are integrated on paper, there's social segregation. There are some exceptions to this like hipster/artsy circles being more mixed, but aside from that I overwhelmingly see people stick to their own
To As Above So Below:
There’s nothing “mini” about Houston.
Say it a fourth time. Maybe he’ll get the message then
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