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Why are we allowing our hospitals to be over run with unvaccinated who far outnumber the vaccinated that are taking up the hospital beds? At least if you are vaccinated there's a good chance you can deal with covid and home and not waste a hospital bed for someone who needs it.
Why are we allowing the willingly ignorant to impact the possible level of timely healthcare for others that did their best to be a part of the solution by taking up valuable hospital beds.
Why is it that the first thing people do when they take up a hospital bed is say "wow I should have got that vaccine!" Imagine being such a conspiracy theorist that you allowed yourself to selfishly die of covid. I know someone who pled with their best friend to get the vaccine and they didn't listen and now they are dead.
Why are we allowing our hospitals to be over run with unvaccinated who far outnumber the vaccinated that are taking up the hospital beds? At least if you are vaccinated there's a good chance you can deal with covid and home and not waste a hospital bed for someone who needs it.
Why are we allowing the willingly ignorant to impact the possible level of timely healthcare for others that did their best to be a part of the solution by taking up valuable hospital beds.
Why is it that the first thing people do when they take up a hospital bed is say "wow I should have got that vaccine!" Imagine being such a conspiracy theorist that you allowed yourself to selfishly die of covid. I know someone who pled with their best friend to get the vaccine and they didn't listen and now they are dead.
I’m not convinced that’s what’s actually happening.
I still believe we have the right to decide whether or not we want to take a vaccine (which actually is turning out not to really be a vaccine but more of a treatment) that was only approved under emergency use authorization and for which we do not have any long-term information regarding possible negative effects. There is no way we can give truly informed consent and therefore should not be penalized if we decide to decline an experimental treatment.
If we were faced with some thing as deadly as smallpox or bubonic plague it might be a different story although in that case probably everyone would willingly take a vaccine.
Why are we allowing our hospitals to be over run with unvaccinated who far outnumber the vaccinated that are taking up the hospital beds? At least if you are vaccinated there's a good chance you can deal with covid and home and not waste a hospital bed for someone who needs it.
Why are we allowing the willingly ignorant to impact the possible level of timely healthcare for others that did their best to be a part of the solution by taking up valuable hospital beds.
Why is it that the first thing people do when they take up a hospital bed is say "wow I should have got that vaccine!" Imagine being such a conspiracy theorist that you allowed yourself to selfishly die of covid. I know someone who pled with their best friend to get the vaccine and they didn't listen and now they are dead.
I’m not convinced that’s what’s actually happening.
I still believe we have the right to decide whether or not we want to take a vaccine (which actually is turning out not to really be a vaccine but more of a treatment) that was only approved under emergency use authorization and for which we do not have any long-term information regarding possible negative effects. There is no way we can give truly informed consent and therefore should not be penalized if we decide to decline at this time.
If we were dealing with something as deadly for all like smallpox or Bubonic plague then it might be a little bit different. But if that were the case I’m sure everyone would want to take a vaccine.
Last edited by october2007; 01-04-2022 at 06:46 PM..
Right, that's what every American thinks when they are aided by first responders, or when they are taught and mentored by public school teachers. Oh, I forgot, public school teachers are villains to many of the Big Lie propagandists who populate and diminish this forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by on3
Why are we allowing our hospitals to be over run with unvaccinated who far outnumber the vaccinated that are taking up the hospital beds? At least if you are vaccinated there's a good chance you can deal with covid and home and not waste a hospital bed for someone who needs it.
Why are we allowing the federal government to stockpile monoclonal antibodies instead of letting Florida and Texas continue to buy and use them? Those antibodies keep people out of the hospital.
Quote:
Originally Posted by on3
Why are we allowing the willingly ignorant to impact the possible level of timely healthcare for others that did their best to be a part of the solution by taking up valuable hospital beds.
Why is it that the first thing people do when they take up a hospital bed is say "wow I should have got that vaccine!" Imagine being such a conspiracy theorist that you allowed yourself to selfishly die of covid. I know someone who pled with their best friend to get the vaccine and they didn't listen and now they are dead.
Pets and livestock get shots, too. It doesn't make them special. The attitude of entitlement that this pandemic has revealed is stunning: government officials thinking they're entitled to shut down society and hoard treatments, public school teachers feeling entitled to work from home no matter how ineffective it is, employers feeling entitled to force their employees to get an experimental injection, and people of no particular distinction feeling entitled to kick people out of the hospital.
I still believe we have the right to decide whether or not we want to take a vaccine (which actually is turning out not to really be a vaccine but more of a treatment) that was only approved under emergency use authorization and for which we do not have any long-term information regarding possible negative effects. There is no way we can give truly informed consent and therefore should not be penalized if we decide to decline at this time.
What do you mean the COVID vaccine is "more of a treatment" than a vaccine? A COVID vaccine is relatively useless once you've contracted COVID and are in the hospital. Where do acquire such ridiculous information? Do you believe any vaccine, including for flu, polio, or smallpox, is used to cure a viral infection as opposed to preventing it? If so, please substantiate this belief.
The anti-vaxxers, including the mainstream Republican Party, misrepresent and hide facts shamelessly. Shortly before reading your post, I read this article about a 46-year-old anti-vaxxer and presumed California 2022 state assembly candidate who died of COVID in December. Apart from her unfortunate death, what was most disturbing were the false claims of anti-vaxxers that she died of blood clots from a vaccination shot, and the unwillingness of the Orange County Republican Party to even admit that she died of COVID. Her husband eventually stated she died of COVID because she was not vaccinated.
<<The Orange County Republicans, for whom Ernby had served as the precinct operations chair, said news of her death had caused “great sadness.”
The group noted only that Ernby had died unexpectedly after a “brief illness,” saying “we have hope in this tragedy because we know she had a deep faith.”
In a sad sign of the times, Ernby’s death also led to a public feud between anti-vaxxers and pro-vaxxers in the comments section of her Facebook page, with pro-vaxxers posting memes appearing to mock her death and anti-vaxxers falsely claiming she had died as a result of the COVID-19 jab.
Ernby’s husband, Mattias Ernby, appeared to confirm his wife had not been vaccinated in response to a Facebook user who claimed she had died of blood clots after getting vaccinated.
“She was NOT vaccinated. That was the problem,” Mattias Ernby wrote.>>
I could spend hours daily correcting the COVID falsehoods posted just in the Ohio forum. Knowingly or not, you are spreading Big Lie COVID propaganda. I'm dumbfounded when anyone, and you're not the first, argues that vaccinations are not preventive but are treatments. You owe us a documented explanation of your claim, or an apology.
Are you truly unaware that the Pfizer vaccine was fully approved by the FDA in August???
Persons who aren't vaccinated are freeloading off the majority of Americans (over 60 percent) who are vaccinated. The unvaccinated have a much higher rate than vaccinated individuals of hospitalization, death, and long COVID. They infect other persons, shedding greater viral loads than vaccinated individuals with asymptomatic infections.
See post 662 in this thread for a discussion of a study of over one million COVID cases in England quantifying the effectiveness of COVID vaccinations in reducing hospitalizations.
The costs of unnecessarily hospitalizations and medical treatments (anti-viral treatments are much more expensive than the cost of vaccination) burden Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance systems, raising the cost of medical insurance for all.
Vaccine mandates are imposed on employees to protect other employees, reduce healthcare insurance costs, and to protect businesses from productivity losses. All employees and even customers pay for lost productivity.
The social welfare costs and the consequences of diminished educations as a result of the COVID epidemic will burden our society for decades.
Quote:
Originally Posted by october2007
If we were dealing with something as deadly for all like smallpox or Bubonic plague then it might be a little bit different. But if that were the case I’m sure everyone would want to take a vaccine.
COVID deaths in the U.S. would be much, much higher without widespread vaccination. Due to vaccination and antibiotics to prevent and treat smallpox and the bubonic bacillus, COVID is much, much deadlier than either, especially as COVID immunity conferred by infection or vaccination relatively quickly wanes and due to the relatively rapid mutation of the COVID virus. A significant percentage of those infected by COVID, even those who are asymptomatic, develop debilitating cases of long COVID.
Obviously, you are minimizing the reported loss of over 800,000 American lives, about a million based on excess death calculations. Again, without vaccination, the lives lost would be much, much higher. I would be surprised if even 50 Americans died in 2021 from smallpox and the bubonic plague.
You seemingly are indifferent to the hundreds of thousands of American children who have lost parents, breadwinners, caretakers, mentors and/or loved ones. Despite pleas of healthcare workers for persons to get vaccinated, you and others ignore these pleas showing a blatant disregard for dangerous and unnecessary burdens the unvaccinated place on healthcare workers.
What do you mean the COVID vaccine is "more of a treatment" than a vaccine? A COVID vaccine is relatively useless once you've contracted COVID and are in the hospital. Where do acquire such ridiculous information? Do you believe any vaccine, including for flu, polio, or smallpox, is used to cure a viral infection as opposed to preventing it? If so, please substantiate this belief.
The anti-vaxxers, including the mainstream Republican Party, misrepresent and hide facts shamelessly. Shortly before reading your post, I read this article about a 46-year-old anti-vaxxer and presumed California 2022 state assembly candidate who died of COVID in December. Apart from her unfortunate death, what was most disturbing were the false claims of anti-vaxxers that she died of blood clots from a vaccination shot, and the unwillingness of the Orange County Republican Party to even admit that she died of COVID. Her husband eventually stated she died of COVID because she was not vaccinated.
<<The Orange County Republicans, for whom Ernby had served as the precinct operations chair, said news of her death had caused “great sadness.”
The group noted only that Ernby had died unexpectedly after a “brief illness,” saying “we have hope in this tragedy because we know she had a deep faith.”
In a sad sign of the times, Ernby’s death also led to a public feud between anti-vaxxers and pro-vaxxers in the comments section of her Facebook page, with pro-vaxxers posting memes appearing to mock her death and anti-vaxxers falsely claiming she had died as a result of the COVID-19 jab.
Ernby’s husband, Mattias Ernby, appeared to confirm his wife had not been vaccinated in response to a Facebook user who claimed she had died of blood clots after getting vaccinated.
“She was NOT vaccinated. That was the problem,” Mattias Ernby wrote.>>
I could spend hours daily correcting the COVID falsehoods posted just in the Ohio forum. Knowingly or not, you are spreading Big Lie COVID propaganda. I'm dumbfounded when anyone, and you're not the first, argues that vaccinations are not preventive but are treatments. You owe us a documented explanation of your claim, or an apology.
Are you truly unaware that the Pfizer vaccine was fully approved by the FDA in August???
Persons who aren't vaccinated are freeloading off the majority of Americans (over 60 percent) who are vaccinated. The unvaccinated have a much higher rate than vaccinated individuals of hospitalization, death, and long COVID. They infect other persons, shedding greater viral loads than vaccinated individuals with asymptomatic infections.
See post 662 in this thread for a discussion of a study of over one million COVID cases in England quantifying the effectiveness of COVID vaccinations in reducing hospitalizations.
The costs of unnecessarily hospitalizations and medical treatments (anti-viral treatments are much more expensive than the cost of vaccination) burden Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance systems, raising the cost of medical insurance for all.
Vaccine mandates are imposed on employees to protect other employees, reduce healthcare insurance costs, and to protect businesses from productivity losses. All employees and even customers pay for lost productivity.
The social welfare costs and the consequences of diminished educations as a result of the COVID epidemic will burden our society for decades.
COVID deaths in the U.S. would be much, much higher without widespread vaccination. Due to vaccination and antibiotics to prevent and treat smallpox and the bubonic bacillus, COVID is much, much deadlier than either, especially as COVID immunity conferred by infection or vaccination relatively quickly wanes and due to the relatively rapid mutation of the COVID virus. A significant percentage of those infected by COVID, even those who are asymptomatic, develop debilitating cases of long COVID.
Obviously, you are minimizing the reported loss of over 800,000 American lives, about a million based on excess death calculations. Again, without vaccination, the lives lost would be much, much higher. I would be surprised if even 50 Americans died in 2021 from smallpox and the bubonic plague.
You seemingly are indifferent to the hundreds of thousands of American children who have lost parents, breadwinners, caretakers, mentors and/or loved ones. Despite pleas of healthcare workers for persons to get vaccinated, you and others ignore these pleas showing a blatant disregard for dangerous and unnecessary burdens the unvaccinated place on healthcare workers.
Your comments in this post are not only often false, but they are disgusting IMO.
A traditional vaccine confers immunity and prevents contracting/spreading the disease. This "vaccine" doesn't do that although that was the original intent. Many who have taken the vaccine still get Covid and the shot is now being described as something that will lessen the symptoms and prevent you from dying. In fact the definition of vaccine was changed so that this could still be called a vaccine even though it functions more as a therapeutic (i.e., lessening symptoms rather than preventing illness).
I do not believe the other vaccines you mentioned function as a cure for a virus - they are considered to prevent contracting/spreading an illness - something which this "vaccine" does not reliably do. Covid can surely be deadly but not for the majority of people. Comorbidities are often involved and there appears to be a link with low Vitamin D levels. The un-vaccinated and the vaccinated are both contracting and spreading Covid and I think it's reprehensible for you or anyone to try and persecute someone who chooses not to get a still experimental shot - one that we have no long term information on (Pfizer apparently wants 75 years to release their vaccine safety data to the public).
The good news is that Omicron appears to be the good variant and hopefully will do what the "vaccine" hasn't actually been able to do - confer immunity. We shall see.
Vaccine passports in exchange for medical care.
Let the nonvaxxed pray for the fluid to leave their lungs.
Sounds like an easy solution.
Yep, gotta save those hospital beds for all the good sane sober moral and productive members of society who made the proper decisions about their health and well-being, such as:
The opioid junkie on his third overdose;
The drunk driver who passed out at the wheel and binned his truck into a culvert;
The fried-food-chomping fattie on his second heart attack and needing a triple bypass;
The smoker who has reduced his lungs to malignant lumps of charcoal;
The rummy who has converted his liver into a distended wad shoe leather;
The San Francisco bathhouse aficionado who relies on a cocktail of HIV suppressants to stay alive;
The gang-banger who took four hits to center mass in a shootout with someone from a rival faction;
The paralyzed college kid who drank too many White Claws at a spring break party and dove into the hotel's four-foot-deep swimming pool;
The suicidal loner who jumped off a highway overpass but didn't quite finish the job, etc.
Let's make good and sure those who refuse to let their bodies be coercively monetized as part of a worldwide clinical trial on behalf of Big Pharma don't eat up any resources that should go these much more deserving recipients.
Yep, gotta save those hospital beds for all the good sane sober moral and productive members of society who made the proper decisions about their health and well-being, such as:
The opioid junkie on his third overdose;
The drunk driver who passed out at the wheel and binned his truck into a culvert;
The fried-food-chomping fattie on his second heart attack and needing a triple bypass;
The smoker who has reduced his lungs to malignant lumps of charcoal;
The rummy who has converted his liver into a distended wad shoe leather;
The San Francisco bathhouse aficionado who relies on a cocktail of HIV suppressants to stay alive;
The gang-banger who took four hits to center mass in a shootout with someone from a rival faction;
The paralyzed college kid who drank too many White Claws at a spring break party and dove into the hotel's four-foot-deep swimming pool;
The suicidal loner who jumped off a highway overpass but didn't quite finish the job, etc.
Let's make good and sure those who refuse to let their bodies be coercively monetized as part of a worldwide clinical trial on behalf of Big Pharma don't eat up any resources that should go these much more deserving recipients.
We must save our hospitals for the healthy people who don't need them.
Northeast Ohio hospitals are being overwhelmed by the current COVID surge, threatening emergency care as detailed in this story.
<<James Shimp and his mom Theresa experienced it this week.
"At four o'clock in the morning, she (Theresa) was transported by ambulance to the (Cleveland Clinic) Akron General Hospital. She was taken off the gurney and putting a wheelchair and she, uh, was put in the waiting room and she was there for 22 and-a-half hours," James Shimp told us.
74-year-old Theresa was having trouble breathing, dealing with severe swelling from her congestive heart failure. "People that have heart conditions, having trouble breathing, you know, in the past that's always been a priority," James added. "To put mom in a wheelchair, I was a little shocked. I thought, 'well, surely they're gonna come see her.'"
12 hours later when James was out of work, he joined her – bringing her first water or meal of the day. James says staff took her vitals, but provided no other care until they gave up 22 hours later and went home.
The Cleveland Clinic explained the dire situation at its Akron General Hospital:
<<Dr. Robert Willey with Cleveland Clinic says the bottleneck starts because there is no bed space on the hospital floor, so patients being admitted are backed up in the ER, while others are treated right there in the waiting room. He emphasized that no one is being turned away from the ER.
"So rather than just let these patients sit there, and nobody pay any attention to them, we put our staff out in the waiting areas to triage them," Dr. Willey explained. "That’s intentional, it’s not by accident that we’re moving into the waiting areas and making sure that we touch base with everybody who’s there. To make sure we do a rapid assessment and take back the sickest people that we need to take back and attend to them immediately.">>
Stay healthy for the next several weeks....
See post 9 in this thread as Ohio's top doctors warn of an "omicron tsunami," although it likely appears to have already crested in northeast Ohio.
Click on the "infection rate" header here and scroll over the interactive graph. The infection rate in Cuyahoga County has fallen to 0.90 as of Jan. 6.
Checking out Franklin County (Columbus) and Hamilton County (Cincinnati), case rates now are higher in both counties than in Cuyahoga County and the infection rate is approaching the critical level, much as it did in Cuyahoga County in December.
Last edited by WRnative; 01-08-2022 at 04:14 AM..
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