Building a permitted off-grid home in Puna district (Hilo, Fern Acres: real estate market, insurance)

[respect4pele]

Has anyone here done this or know anyone who has?

What would be the upside, and the downside of doing this and what exactly would it entail? We have land in Fern Acres that we bought several years back and are almost ready to retire.

So the house would have to be to code, both electrically and plumbing wise, and also structurally. Also we would need water catchment to code, as well as septic. I'm thinking composting toilet for the first year or two, and a grey water mulch basin system. Eventually a septic tank.

What other considerations should I look into?

[terracore]

People do it all the time. Our next door neighbors built a lovely craftsman home over a couple of years, did a great job at it, sold it at a huge markup, and then retired back on the mainland on the profits.

Have you been to your property or Hawaii island recently? The Leilani eruption destroyed over 1,000 homes and then COVID happened and a flood of mainlanders came over and are buying everything up. In the last year global lumber prices have shot up 300+% and are still rising. So building a home here now is even more expensive and a lot of the professionals, everything from builders, surveyors, bulldozers, tradesmen, most of the good ones don't answer their phones and you need to know somebody who knows somebody to get a professional that can name their price.

Hopefully, this craziness passes and the inflation is truly "transitory" as the lying FED is promising.

I'm not sure what order you were planning to do things in your OP, but the county will permit a composting toilet but only if there is a septic system to handle the house grey water. So you would have all the inconvenience of a composting toilet with a plumbing requirement of a regular toilet.

[hotzcatz]

FWIW, 'off grid' is nothing special in Puna. If you want exotic and special, go for on pavement with grid power and County water. Super exotic would be grid power, County water AND with mail delivery to the house.

2006 International Residential Code (as amended by Hawaii County) is the rule book. Mostly it's about braced walls these days. Lots of Simpson fittings, too.

They're now adding in the IECC for electrical efficiency, although that's usually a given considering that it's either the highest grid power prices in the nation or you're making your own and that generally keeps things pretty efficient.

Draw your plans to code, get an engineer or architect to stamp them, get the septic engineer to staple his pages onto your plans, take them to the Planning Department and get an 'owner-builder' permit. You're now your own contractor, you can either do the work yourself (except, of course, for the electrical and plumbing bits) or hire it done.

With buildings built with owner-builder permits, you aren't supposed to sell the house for several years after the final inspection, I forget the exact time amount right now.

[respect4pele]

Thanks for your replies.

"the county will permit a composting toilet but only if there is a septic system to handle the house grey water" - I have looked into this and grey water can be used for irrigation. Stringent requirements, must be piped underground to mulch basins, but much cheaper than installing a septic tank. It's something I would have to think long and hard about because kitchen sink water is still considered black water. Just may go with a septic tank in the end.

Lumber prices are the same here in Seattle as Hilo, kinda weird because it's normally 20% cheaper, it's the way of the world right now. Pandemic price gouging IMO. My nephews are journeyman carpenters and they want to help which is good, but I would have to find good plumbing and electrical contractors thru my friend in Ocean view whose dad and brother are home builders on the west side. If lumber prices stay high, then I will just downsize the house plans.

The goal isn't to be 'exotic' or whatever, it's to have as few bills as possible by paying them up front. In the end, solar will cost about $50 - $80 per month (upfront and maintenance costs spread out over the life of the system) of use.

Haven't been to Hawaii in over a year due to pandemic. Also, our retirement is being delayed because my mother in law is in a downward health spiral so my wife has to take the time to care for and assist her. I may come by myself within the next year or so, and build it while she stays in Seattle for a while. So many variables to sort thru.

[Hawaiianinourhearts]

Originally Posted by respect4pele

Thanks for your replies.

"the county will permit a composting toilet but only if there is a septic system to handle the house grey water" - I have looked into this and grey water can be used for irrigation. Stringent requirements, must be piped underground to mulch basins, but much cheaper than installing a septic tank. It's something I would have to think long and hard about because kitchen sink water is still considered black water. Just may go with a septic tank in the end.

Lumber prices are the same here in Seattle as Hilo, kinda weird because it's normally 20% cheaper, it's the way of the world right now. Pandemic price gouging IMO. My nephews are journeyman carpenters and they want to help which is good, but I would have to find good plumbing and electrical contractors thru my friend in Ocean view whose dad and brother are home builders on the west side. If lumber prices stay high, then I will just downsize the house plans.

The goal isn't to be 'exotic' or whatever, it's to have as few bills as possible by paying them up front. In the end, solar will cost about $50 - $80 per month (upfront and maintenance costs spread out over the life of the system) of use.

Haven't been to Hawaii in over a year due to pandemic. Also, our retirement is being delayed because my mother in law is in a downward health spiral so my wife has to take the time to care for and assist her. I may come by myself within the next year or so, and build it while she stays in Seattle for a while. So many variables to sort thru.

I was wondering what the end of your story here is? Did you make it to the island? Did you retire and get your home built? What advice would you give someone doing the same?

I'm in the planning stages to do the same.

Mahalo

[whtviper1]

Originally Posted by Hawaiianinourhearts

I was wondering what the end of your story here is? Did you make it to the island? Did you retire and get your home built? What advice would you give someone doing the same?

I'm in the planning stages to do the same.

Mahalo

FYI The OP hasn't posted since May 2022 and hasn't been online since Jan 2023

[terracore]

Originally Posted by Hawaiianinourhearts

I was wondering what the end of your story here is? Did you make it to the island? Did you retire and get your home built? What advice would you give someone doing the same?

I'm in the planning stages to do the same.

Mahalo

I think the advice would vary depending on your specific situation. Do you already have land here to build on?

Since this post started the largest insurer in LZ 2 has notified everybody they are pulling out of the state. It's causing ripples in the real estate market because the price of insurance in LZ 2 is going to make home ownership less affordable.

[Hawaiianinourhearts]

Yes, we closed back in July on a lot in Fern Forest. I'm putting a five year plan together to be on island full time. Been doing a lot of homework, and have been on island at minimum 3x per year since Covid opened back up. If you were making a five year plan to build a house and be on island full time. What would the steps be you would take? Here is what I'm thinking:

Year 1-2: Develop house plans. Spend time on island doing some hand clearing and learning the layout of land for a site plan. Get a shed or something on site for hand tools, and sleeping. Gate. I want to be on the property when on my island from now on. This will also help to refund the savings after purchase.

Year 3: Building permit, land clear for house and better driveway with gate.

Year 4: Power to property, septic, catchment, Build house. I am a Construction Manager and would love to build my own, but realize the challenges of logistics and only so much PT.

Year 5: Set up solar, make the move, settle in and become apart of the wonderful Hawaiian community.

Obviously, a lot in the middle of all of this to do!

Mahalo for anyone that responds. I look forward to hopefully meeting you all someday.

We'll be back home in January.

[terracore]

Originally Posted by Hawaiianinourhearts

Year 1-2: Develop house plans. Spend time on island doing some hand clearing and learning the layout of land for a site plan. Get a shed or something on site for hand tools, and sleeping. Gate. I want to be on the property when on my island from now on. This will also help to refund the savings after purchase.

I wouldn't construct anything or store tools on the property until you are going to be there full time. You can do some clearing to explore the property so long as you understand the jungle will start reclaiming the land the minute you leave. A good way to keep a trail cleared is to use an existing pig trail. They only clear them to about knee high but you can use a machete to make it taller. They usually continue using the trail so the jungle doesn't swallow it up. If you have neighbors nearby you can get to know, it's probably okay to have a gate installed, otherwise I would wait on the gate too. One of the tricks rippers use is to dump rubbish or a junk appliance up against someone's gate and if it doesn't get cleared right away they know nobody is living there and they feel entitled to take whatever they want, including the gate. If your neighbors see the trash they can move it and indicate that somebody is at least watching the property.

We bought a property in Fern Forest before we moved here and I installed a game camera that texted me pictures from the property. It wasn't so much for security than it was just to let me see my slice of paradise from 3,000 miles away. Getting those pictures were one of the highlights of my day. Now the technology is much better and you can buy a solar powered video camera with floodlights and night vision for under $100 plus $10-$20/month for the cellular plan.

As far as your plans for staying on the property while you visit, my recommendation would be a non descript trail leading from the road to a concrete slab you can put a tent on. The slab can't be stolen and you can take the tent with you when you leave. ACE and HPM sell tarp carport kits that use galvanized electrical conduit poles as the structure. You could set that up outside the tent to create a dry covered space to extend your living area (20x20 is a popular model). When you leave you can hide the poles in the jungle. Even if they do get stolen they aren't going to break the bank.

[Arktikos]

Originally Posted by terracore

.. my recommendation would be a non descript trail leading from the road to a concrete slab you can put a tent on...

I guess you mean a small, hand poured slab for a tent only, otherwise how do you get a concrete truck in for pouring the slab without a driveway?

OP, it'd definitely be a very good idea to befriend a neighbor who could watch your place while you're away. Otherwise, your plan sounds fine if not a bit lengthy in scope.

My first year I built a small "greenhouse" for sleeping in, had a bulldozer clear driveway, house site and orchard, backhoe for cesspool, then got a slab poured for a carport/shed. Finally, a gate. But then, I didn't apply for permits so there were no obstacles with the timetable.

Some people ship tools and materials over in a container and then have a fairly secure steel vault to store valuables.