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We had a better way, exhibited in 2020 through 2022. But we reverted back to the old way to try to save our single-use office district.
Common sense would dictate that once seeing how much better things became when forced to telecommute, they would have kept some of it moving forward. Look how much more pleasant driving in and around the city became. That included Portland along with many of other cities across the US. You would think the corporate tycoons would apply some common sense and kill two birds with one stone.
1. Reduce their carbon footprint on a city that is bursting at the seams while improving the QOL for all.
2. Lower total operational overhead while getting rid of all that unnecessary office space. Or lease some of it out at a minimum! Move to desk sharing models and a much smaller footprint when folks need to come in for all those boring meetings.
While some companies did learn from the 'forced' social experiment, other CEOs learned nothing but back to their same old status quo approaches. That is butts in seat and full micromanaging along with office politics. Gotta keep 'em under their thumb where they are watched daily.
That said, some have learned who were willing to and listened to their employees who much prefer having the flexibility. That even includes many state and federal agencies who would never have allowed remote or hybrid work in the past. So, times have changed, at least in part. But too many retreated back to their old ways when given the opportunity.
Common sense would dictate that once seeing how much better things became when forced to telecommute, they would have kept some of it moving forward. Look how much more pleasant driving in and around the city became. That included Portland along with many of other cities across the US. You would think the corporate tycoons would apply some common sense and kill two birds with one stone.
1. Reduce their carbon footprint on a city that is bursting at the seams while improving the QOL for all.
2. Lower total operational overhead while getting rid of all that unnecessary office space. Or lease some of it out at a minimum! Move to desk sharing models and a much smaller footprint when folks need to come in for all those boring meetings.
While some companies did learn from the 'forced' social experiment, other CEOs learned nothing but back to their same old status quo approaches. That is butts in seat and full micromanaging along with office politics. Gotta keep 'em under their thumb where they are watched daily.
That said, some have learned who were willing to and listened to their employees who much prefer having the flexibility. That even includes many state and federal agencies who would never have allowed remote or hybrid work in the past. So, times have changed, at least in part. But too many retreated back to their old ways when given the opportunity.
Derek
MtnSurfer you definitely speak the truth !
Were it not for the cultural and ethnic diversity coupled with the temperate climate and lushly green scenic vistas, we would have little incentive or logical reason to continue living here - the endless bottleneck traffic, extreme high COL, visibly alarming drug -induced homelessness and resultant crime and lastly, restricted access to wholly mediocre heath care and services are enough to drive away any sensible person, especially ones who are used to living in other US regions where the above problems are rare and not the everyday norm.
My husband thought earning somewhat under 200k here was a lot of money since it was a significant raise over CO salaries - that is, before we moved here and had to move again twice - now we know that to live as one might want and expect- you might need to earn even more. (This of course varies, depending on each individuals' needs -my particular chiro, PT and dry-needling bills sometimes exceed 1k per month (and I have already exhausted my 24-chiropractor visit, 45 PT visit and 12 visit dry-needling acupuncture limits through insurance for the remainder of this year.)
His current job and clueless company do not appear to be long-term "keepers", so that is fueling our re-evaluation of just how much longer we will be willing to stick it out here.
We are excited to move to Issaquah for now but are pragmatically aware this may not solve our long-term issues as noted above.
The big question may then be: where to from here?
So, we shall see, and all in good time.
Last edited by DallasYankee; 07-19-2023 at 06:00 PM..
MtnSurfer you definitely speak the truth !
Were it not for the cultural and ethnic diversity coupled with the temperate climate and lushly green scenic vistas, we would have little incentive or logical reason to continue living here - the endless bottleneck traffic, extreme high COL, visibly alarming drug -induced homelessness and resultant crime and lastly, restricted access to wholly mediocre heath care and services are enough to drive away any sensible person, especially ones who are used to living in other US regions where the above problems are rare and not the everyday norm.
My husband thought earning somewhat under 200k here was a lot of money since it was a significant raise over CO salaries - that is, before we moved here and had to move again twice - now we know that to live as one might want and even expect- you might need to earn 100-200K more.
His current job and clueless company do not appear to be long-term "keepers", so that is fueling our re-evaluation of just how much longer we will be willing to stick it out here.
The big question may be: where to from here?
So, we shall see, and all in good time.
DallasYankee, I think I recall when you were looking to move here. Unfortunately, since then, the cost of living and especially housing have really skyrocketed. Having lived in CO ourselves with relatives still there, the housing crisis is in a similar situation.
As far as where to next, you can look at the stats on where most Washingtonians move to. But honestly, what's more important is what works best for you and your family vs. the masses. That could anywhere from back east to the south to California. I'm vacationing up here in Vancouver BC and its a very beautiful place with a number of expats who move here.
Next week I'll be in Charleston, SC on business and that is really a beautiful southern city. Speaking to the locals, they are also bursting at the seams due to the beauty of the place. They get lots of east coast folks who are burnt out on snowy winters and flock south to palm trees and sunny beaches.
Like any place, they all come with their pros/cons. It really comes down to your own priorities in determining QOL for you. For example, do you value mountains over beaches? What about climate and four seasons? What couldn't you live without? What makes you happy beyond the daily grind of life? Could that be found somewhere else within WA, perhaps, prior to moving out of state? Have you guys visited Vancouver?
Derek
Last edited by MtnSurfer; 07-19-2023 at 06:13 PM..
This is purely, 100% anecdotal but I have had 3 friends or acquaintances move here from Colorado. They all hated it and moved back within 1-2 years.
Similarly, I am really not a CO fan, I don't get the hype of the state or of Denver.
I think perhaps the two just don't mix.
Well, jabogitlu, moving back to Colorado is not on my radar at all - I hated it there heartily and would rather die than have to return there, LOL!
Other than grid highways and less drug-fueled crime and unfortunately, better designed medical services and providers not controlled and regulated by the enforcers, the insurance companies, Colorado has little to offer me.
Culturally, it is a vast wasteland without much diversity and other than cheaper housing, living there didn't end up much of a bargain for us.
I have had to slowly realize that my many ailments which I believe were initially brought on by the harsh and arid Colorado climate are all now chronic and finding caring and capable practitioners to aid me in dealing with the literal fallout from 12 years in an inhospitable environment is proving quite a challenge.
I don't get the Denver hype either as I am an indoor gym rat who actually hates outdoor activities in the sun and snow.
I am not a proficient swimmer either.
Last edited by DallasYankee; 07-19-2023 at 09:07 PM..
DallasYankee, I think I recall when you were looking to move here. Unfortunately, since then, the cost of living and especially housing have really skyrocketed. Having lived in CO ourselves with relatives still there, the housing crisis is in a similar situation.
As far as where to next, you can look at the stats on where most Washingtonians move to. But honestly, what's more important is what works best for you and your family vs. the masses. That could anywhere from back east to the south to California. I'm vacationing up here in Vancouver BC and its a very beautiful place with a number of expats who move here.
Next week I'll be in Charleston, SC on business and that is really a beautiful southern city. Speaking to the locals, they are also bursting at the seams due to the beauty of the place. They get lots of east coast folks who are burnt out on snowy winters and flock south to palm trees and sunny beaches.
Like any place, they all come with their pros/cons. It really comes down to your own priorities in determining QOL for you. For example, do you value mountains over beaches? What about climate and four seasons? What couldn't you live without? What makes you happy beyond the daily grind of life? Could that be found somewhere else within WA, perhaps, prior to moving out of state? Have you guys visited Vancouver?
Derek
MtnSurfer, we had hoped to visit both Oregon and Vancover BC/WA , but none of these visits have materialized due to my husband's struggles with the not so fabulous job, my health issues and the double moves.
We had planned to get our passports (me, renewed after expiring in Texas , and new for him) before now, but finally just gave up under the wrath of so many unpleasantries, at least temporarily. Perhaps, once this move to Issaquah is complete, maybe we will have time, and then we can travel out-of-state and country, if we are so lucky.
We have lived in all corners of the US, from NH, Virginia, Arkansas and Texas to Louisiana, Florida, Missouri and California (the latter four me only) in addition to Colorado, and frankly we don't want to return to any of these places.
I was born in NJ and my husband in NY and although I have the energetic East Coast personality in spades, I have no desire to live there now.
So we will have to wait and see how life in lovely little Issaquah unfolds along with my husband's work prospects.
MtnSurfer you definitely speak the truth !
Were it not for the cultural and ethnic diversity coupled with the temperate climate and lushly green scenic vistas, we would have little incentive or logical reason to continue living here - the endless bottleneck traffic, extreme high COL, visibly alarming drug -induced homelessness and resultant crime and lastly, restricted access to wholly mediocre heath care and services are enough to drive away any sensible person, especially ones who are used to living in other US regions where the above problems are rare and not the everyday norm.
My husband thought earning somewhat under 200k here was a lot of money since it was a significant raise over CO salaries - that is, before we moved here and had to move again twice - now we know that to live as one might want and expect- you might need to earn even more. (This of course varies, depending on each individuals' needs -my particular chiro, PT and dry-needling bills sometimes exceed 1k per month (and I have already exhausted my 24-chiropractor visit, 45 PT visit and 12 visit dry-needling acupuncture limits through insurance for the remainder of this year.)
His current job and clueless company do not appear to be long-term "keepers", so that is fueling our re-evaluation of just how much longer we will be willing to stick it out here.
We are excited to move to Issaquah for now but are pragmatically aware this may not solve our long-term issues as noted above. The big question may then be: where to from here?
So, we shall see, and all in good time.
You touched on most of the big issues and the big question.
One thing that you didn't, is the crowding...for example people claim the high COL in WA is worth it due to all the outdoor activities. But, when every ferry, campsite, restaurant, ski resort, trailhead, and boat launch is at 3x capacity or booked full for the entire season it's not fun anymore. Add in my mandated vaccine injury and resulting disability, poor availability of medical care, and WA has died for me.
The disability and WFH changes things. My home is now my home, office, and place of most of my activities. I seek a more affordable area with good health care and think that extreme weather that scares the "lightweights" away will also keep the same damage from being done to those places. Where, IDK yet. I think I'd prefer to face extreme cold and be well prepared for it, than deal with extreme heat, tornadoes, hurricanes, etc.
You touched on most of the big issues and the big question.
One thing that you didn't, is the crowding...for example people claim the high COL in WA is worth it due to all the outdoor activities. But, when every ferry, campsite, restaurant, ski resort, trailhead, and boat launch is at 3x capacity or booked full for the entire season it's not fun anymore. Add in my mandated vaccine injury and resulting disability, poor availability of medical care, and WA has died for me.
The disability and WFH changes things. My home is now my home, office, and place of most of my activities. I seek a more affordable area with good health care and think that extreme weather that scares the "lightweights" away will also keep the same damage from being done to those places. Where, IDK yet. I think I'd prefer to face extreme cold and be well prepared for it, than deal with extreme heat, tornadoes, hurricanes, etc.
rkcarguy, if that is the case and you're ok with cold and snow, I think you should at least consider some parts of the Midwest. While not as popular as the east, west coasts or the south, they rank highly for medical care and access. And homes are much more affordable. It doesn't hurt to look. If can can a place for half the cost of WA, then you should have some money left over for other things including snowbirding during winter months.
Take a look at these top US cities for healthcare:
Olmsted County, Minnesota
Johnson County, Iowa
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Dickinson County, Michigan
Montour County Pennsylvania
Unfortunately, the Midwest is not a viable option for me since I absolutely detest snow and ice.
My bum left ankle puts me at a higher risk of a crippling fall with frigid temps, and scorching dry or humid heat is also not well tolerated by my finicky body.
I am rather limited in where I can comfortably live without loads of money, but I think that is a common source of grumbling as one ages.
Time will tell as it always has and sometimes we just don't like the answer provided , LOL!
Sounds like your priorities have made you miserable. Many folks don't need or want those things. You do.
What you're describing, frankly, is the location of half the country, maybe more. I assume your rental house was near other folks - who grew up all along there without those things.
In other words - life is what ya make of it.
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