Vancouver's economy and history (Spokane, Tacoma: sales, real estate, Home Depot)

[MtnSurfer]

Hi,

In researching the area I became curious about the local economy. I've heard that quite a few residents commute into Portland for work. However, I was wondering about Vancouver's economy itself. I've found some basic information online describing a transition from forestry, fishing, the paper mill and manufacturing to more service oriented jobs like health care, some high tech, education, tourism, real estate, etc... It still seems somewhat limited and possibly struggling like many areas in the PNW.

Recently, according to WA State "The biggest single event in 2017 was the opening of the Ilani Casino, operated by the Cowlitz Tribe, near La Center. The casino employs in the neighborhood of 1,000 staff."
-- https://esd.wa.gov/labormarketinfo/c...profiles/clark

I am wondering what the locals think about the local economy, its future and climate to attract more business, jobs and potential growth? Does that like seem like a 'slow and long' process to grow if at all? Do you anticipate most residents still crossing the bridge to work in Portland for the foreseeable future? Apparently a rail project was rejected which would have made it easier for residents to commute into Portland. Maybe that would discourage local Vancouver job creation/development?

Do you see any new(er) sectors emerging with good growth potential including more jobs for future generations? Pragmatically, is that more of a pipe dream based upon the current situation but something still worth striving for?

Thanks,

Derek

[Count David]

I can't really answer your questions, but my business (transportation) has operations based out of Portland.

Four of the five people who work for me in the Portland market live in Vancouver/Clark County. As far as we're concerned, Vancouver is wholly a part of the Portland area and economy, and I don't expect that to change.

Things/economies/people behave differently in each bi/tri-state area. In Portland/Vancouver, Oregonians could all but care less that Vancouver/Washington is there, and Vancouverites/Washingtonians most often need and use Portland like it is a part of their area. I'm projecting here, but I think you get the idea.

For example, somebody in Tigard or Beaverton would have little use for Vancouver and what it provides, but somebody in Brush Prairie or Camas would be far more likely to work, use, or do something in Oregon at least fairly often.

[texasdiver]

Due I think to the perception that Vancouver is a Portland suburb it seems to get little attention from the WA state government in Olympia and perhaps some underinvestment compared to similar sized cities such as Tacoma and Spokane. That shows up, for example, in the lack of higher education opportunities other than Clark College and WSU-Vancouver. The next nearest college is Evergreen in Olympia.

The rail thing is really hugely complicated. Both states were well on the way towards building a massive replacement bridge for I-5 that actually would have been a freeway widening and improvement project for that entire section, not just the bridge itself. The freeway would have been widened at least up to Mill Plain and I'm not sure how far into Oregon. Oregon insisted that the project include a mass transit component (light rail) which the majority of Vancouverites probably approved. Republicans from largely rural areas of Clark County outside Vancouver who's influence was heightened by the tea party wave elections of 2010 managed to get the state senate to pull the plug and torpedo the project. I think it was a combination of ideological opposition to transit and fear that joining with Portland's transit system would expose Clark County taxpayers to a lot of debt and new taxes. So after hundreds of millions of planning and prep for a new bridge the plug was pulled, hundreds of millions in federal matching dollars have vanished and no new bridge is anywhere on the horizon for at least a decade.

Now we are at a impass. Oregon will never contemplate any new bridges or any new highway connections into Vancouver without a major transit component. That's simply a fact of Portland politics. And you can't blame them. Portland is already hugely congested. What incentive does Portland have to invest any $$$ into infrastructure projects that will bring thousands of new suburban commuters from WA onto Portland streets and highways when the WA side is unwilling to join in on any regional mass transit solutions. It is just simply not going to happen. Republican politicians in Clark County like to talk about new bridges in Camas and Ridgefield and expanding the I-5 bridge without light rail. But those ideas, especially the two new bridge ideas north in Ridgefield and east in Camas are simply ridiculous non-starters from the Oregon perspective. They would require billions of dollars of new highway connections on the Oregon side for no benefit to Oregon, only for the benefit of increased sprawl in Clark County. There aren't a lot of people in Oregon dying for a quicker way to get up to Camas or Fern Prairie. The only major infrastructure projects that will get any approval from the Oregon side are those that improve transportation along the entire WA/OR corridor for shipping between Portland and Puget Sound ports, that kind of thing. Which means the I-5 and I-205 corridors.

Frankly as someone who both lives and works in Clark County and rarely crosses the bridge to Portland this doesn't really affect me or my wife who also works in Vancouver. In fact, from my point of view, the harder it is to get to Portland, the more likely we will see new shops and restaurants and services open up on the WA side of the river. But I think the majority (or a large percentage) of the people we know in Camas have at least one family member driving over to OR for work.

In any event, I don't think Vancouver is particularly unusual economically. You can't compare it to Portland. The proper comparision is to compare Vancouver to Tigard/Tualatin/Wilsonville or Beaverton/Hillsoro, or Clackamas/Gresham or any of the other similar suburban areas around the Portland metro area. Most of those suburban areas are equally if not more dependent on Portland and the rest of the region for jobs. It's all really one large metro economy. Just as many people are trying to get out of Tigard each morning as are trying to get out of Vancouver for work. I don't really see any difference. Vancouver is quite a bit behind Beaverton/Hillsboro in terms of economic development and jobs but probably ahead of the other big suburban areas in Portland.

[PNW-type-gal]

The perception (in Portland) used to be that Clark County residents "cheated" on taxes all the the time by shopping in Portland. But, at the time - 70s, 80s into the 90s - if you lived in Vancouver and you wanted to any specialty shopping, you pretty much had to go over the river. Home Depot, Costco, Best Buy, Lowes, REI and a host of shopping and restaurants didn't actually have a presence in SW Washington, if you wanted to shop there, you went over I-5 or the newly-opened Glen Jackson Bridge. Partly the retailers wanted to be near the larger Portland population base and partly they assumed that the Oregon lack of sales tax would entice Washington shoppers to drive further. That wasn't really the case, locals preferred to drive less, and particularly not to drive over the bridges. I remember reading an article in the paper, oh, early 90s or so, that some of the SW Wa stores were the busiest or most profitable in the Portland metro area.

Living in Vancouver, though, convinced me that I don't want to live in a "border town" again. All the news, radio, TV we got was based in Portland and Oregon-centric and our own state paid zero attention to us. I didn't enjoy that aspect. My friends who live there say it's better than it was but still an issue.

[cdelena]

Originally Posted by PNW-type-gal

...
Living in Vancouver, though, convinced me that I don't want to live in a "border town" again. All the news, radio, TV we got was based in Portland and Oregon-centric and our own state paid zero attention to us. I didn't enjoy that aspect. My friends who live there say it's better than it was but still an issue.

Very true, it is irritating sometimes. You have to work to get any Washington State news.

[PNW-type-gal]

It depends on what kind of "roots" you want to have and how involved you want to be in your community. I know many snowbirds who pay no attention at all to the city that surrounds them because that bigger picture is not important to them. I know some retirees in my area (and on the other side of the Cascades) who are completely involved in their former city/state and pay no attention to local news/events - and then I know many people who are very involved in their community.

[texasdiver]

I think if you have kids in the schools you are much more involved locally than if you do not. That is especially the case in Clark County.

[StealthRabbit]

WA business economy is stifled by taxation and regulation. (Very expensive for businesses who are capital equip intensive (Manufacturing) Many employers from OR and WA have fled to ID. You could research why Fisher Investment came to Camas (from south Bay / Santa Cruz).. probably due to lower costs to infrastructure and employees (wages and housing), But Ken did a lot of research and is very active (and vocal) about Clark County (+/-). As is Dave Madore (US Digital). Both have good points (from an employer / job / economy creator perspective). The heavy hitters / big employers will likely stay. Quite a few have come to WA from OR (but a few have fled back to OR).

Regionally the economy will retain decent growth and employment. It is a desired area and some significant advantages (PDX, Ports, Low Power Costs, available workforce, EDU options, decent culture, available recreation, Access to Asia and BC and Mex...) Granted... it is Nicer for employees than employers... but both are important, and kids tend to want to stay in the area (lots to do). SWWA looks to be healthy for future opportunities. I trust they will get off the 'service job kick / just like Portland...) and seek some REAL significant employers. There are quite a few, but the focus on growth industries has not been on bringing manf (light or heavy) and technical engineering firms back to the area. I do Economic Development for the Gorge... (5 counties / cross border) so I am MUCH more keen and tuned in on their progress and initiatives. Port of Portland and Port of Vancouver are some big organizations with massive sway power.

https://www.vbjusa.com/
CREDC

You can get business clips on Vancouver and Portland radio and business shows.

I've written a few of these CEDS, there is a lot of info here... (actually very interesting to research and write and implement with all the stakeholders)
https://www.greaterportlandinc.com/a...020%20CEDS.pdf