The lowdown on us Mormons... (apartment, food, vacation)

[markg91359]

Two questions:

Are they going to baptize me into LDS after I'm dead?
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I suppose its possible. Does that bother you?



Are Mormons told not to associate with non-LDS? If not, why does it seem that way to so many non-LDS
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This question has a complicated answer. I don't know of any LDS families where I live that purposely "shun" non-members. I don't personally know of any families that tell their children to avoid non-members. I actually think many of us would like to have more contact with non-members than we currently do.

Having said that, the primary issue many non-members face when they try to befriend LDS people is one of time committment and availability. Many LDS people are extremely busy with both family and church committments. Church on Sunday is a three hour block of meetings. The meetings are often longer than this for people who hold some specific callings. Other activities frequently take place during the week as well. They can include church dinners, youth activities (supervised by adults), and Temple Day. Families in Utah tend to be large and many members of the church spend much of their limited social life in extended family gatherings. When you add work into this mix there is not alot of time left for socializing for many members.

Many us members have dealt with the same issues when we attempt to befriend others as well. (I think of the neighbor who loved to play racquetball, but was always too busy, or the other neighbor who was constantly waving at us, but couldn't find thirty seconds to stop and carry on a conversation).

I tend to believe that making friends is more of an issue here than elsewhere. Although, the friends you do make here tend to stay friends longer.

[Purplegrapes]

Great thread...

[lorilou]

I have an honest question for you.
I am not a Mormon, but have several friends who are. Indeed, they are the nicest people on earth. And I will also admit that I find the people who come to my door to be very sincere in their efforts.
Having said that, I have always had a HUGE problem with "The Race Issue". I understand that this is now a widely discouraged topic and that your church members are all over Africa & elsewhere. As a non-Mormon, it is impossible for me to pretend like this ugly racist belief that your church put forth for decades never happened...that black-skinned people were cursed, etc.
I'm interested to hear how this is now addressed by members of your faith?
And thank you for opening up this interesting thread.

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Probably at least two thirds of the threads in the Utah (including the Salt Lake City and St. George forums) are from people considering a move to Utah but who are afraid to take the leap because they are not LDS. Granted, I am LDS and have never lived outside of Utah, so I will admit that maybe my perspective is probably pretty one-sided. On the other hand, when 9 out of 10 of the posters in those threads ask for help in finding a place to settle where there aren't too many of those dreaded Mormons, I have to wonder if it's something other than our horns that everybody is afraid of.

Anyway, this thread is for all those folks who want some accurate information straight out of the horse's mouth so to speak about Mormon doctrine, culture and history. I know I could have started this thread in the religion subforum but it's not my intent to start a debate on "Are Mormons Christians?" (although it's a valid question) or to initiate a sounding board for people to trash Mormonism. My hope is that it will be a thread used primarily by people who are thinking about moving here, people who are new here and are confused about why they can't order prime rib at the Stake House or for long-time non-LDS Utahns who have questions about the faith that they don't dare ask their next-door neighbor for fear of getting a visit from the missionaries the next day.

So if there is anything about Mormons or Mormonism that you have always wanted to know but were afraid to ask, "This is the Place!"

[irman]

Originally Posted by lorilou

it is impossible for me to pretend like this ugly racist belief that your church put forth for decades never happened

You said it, not us (apparently ...)
*it is impossible for me to pretend*
As far as I know, nobody in the LDS church *pretends* it never happened ...

Originally Posted by lorilou

it is impossible for me to pretend like this ugly racist belief that your church put forth for decades never happened...that black-skinned people were cursed, etc.

Find out the truth, and you'll find it is NOT black skinned people ....
It has more to do with ancestry ... not race or anything else ...
Only *ugly* when YOU think it has something to do with *race* ....

As always, these misconceptions are nothing but misconceptions.
Certain descendants of certain peoples, could NOT hold the priesthood, until a later time. That principle is still there. Not everybody in the Church can hold the priesthood, regardless of *colour* .... even now ....

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by lorilou

I have an honest question for you.
I am not a Mormon, but have several friends who are. Indeed, they are the nicest people on earth. And I will also admit that I find the people who come to my door to be very sincere in their efforts.
Having said that, I have always had a HUGE problem with "The Race Issue". I understand that this is now a widely discouraged topic and that your church members are all over Africa & elsewhere. As a non-Mormon, it is impossible for me to pretend like this ugly racist belief that your church put forth for decades never happened...that black-skinned people were cursed, etc.
I'm interested to hear how this is now addressed by members of your faith?
And thank you for opening up this interesting thread.

First, thank you for your kind comments about your personal experiences with the LDS people you've known.

I'm not sure how to respond to your question without starting a huge debate (which would probably be more appropriate to the religion forum). I really don't want to do that, so I'll just state my opinion and hope that other posters keep in mind my purpose in starting this thread. I'll also mention right up front that my opinions on this topic are probably a little to the left of center, in comparison to those of my fellow Latter-day Saints.

In the earliest days of the Church, Blacks were not forbidden to hold the priesthood. In fact, Joseph Smith personally ordained at least one Black man to the priesthood. It was not until after Joseph's death that the ban against Blacks holding the priesthood was established. Because there is nowhere in the Doctrine and Covenants (the book which contains a record of the revelations received by Joseph Smith and a few later prophets) where we can read of a directive from God stating that Blacks cannot hold the priesthood, I have come to believe that this ban was a result of the racism that was so prevalent in America during that period of time. I don't believe God ever authorized the ban. I believe it was established by Brigham Young and continued by later prophets who -- despite the fact that they were called of God for the purpose of leading the Church -- were fallible human beings who were products of their culture and upbringing.

Later prophets stressed that the policy of withholding the priesthood from Blacks was not and had never been a "doctrine" (i.e. an eternal truth) but merely a practice or policy. Unfortunately, it was not until 1978 that this policy was changed. I am old enough to remember that day, and it was a wonderful one.

I don't think that Mormons today deny that the ban ever happened. They simply don't know quite what to make of it. Many undoubtedly wish it had never happened, but are uncomfortable admitting that our leaders can and do make mistakes. It's easier to just say, "Oh, that was in the past. It doesn't matter now." Well, it does matter now. It matters because it is important to us to be honest. The problem is that we don't really know for sure why the policy was put in place to begin with. Our sacred texts don't offer any real explanation and the people who enacted the policy are no longer alive to give us any feedback.

That said, I don't think that Mormons as a whole are or ever have been more "racist" than the general population. For instance, there has never been a time in our history when we had segregated congregations. Blacks could not hold the priesthood but were permitted to join the Church and to worship along side Whites. Joseph Smith -- who was remarkably "color blind" for a person of his day and age -- had actually made a bid for the Presidency of the United States on an abolitionist platform. Unfortunately, some of his successors felt differently, and their views were adopted by the general membership of the Church. It's encouraging for me, as a Latter-day Saint, to know that some of those leaders who were alive in 1978 were at least humble enough to have admitted afterwards that they were wrong in some of the things they had said.

Anyway, I don't know whether that answers your question or not. If it doesn't, please feel free to let me know and I'll try again.

[lorilou]

Katzpur,
thank you for your eloquent answer.
I admire your honesty and frankness, as opposed to the other response.
Since you had put the question out there, this was something that has always made me curious about LDS, and your response was informative.
There are few (if any) human social structures that do not have some quirk or past regret...better to deal with them openly, and in humility, than to defend them.
That's just my opinion, of course.
Thank you again.

[mwruckman]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Thank you! I'm going to take that personally, if you don't mind!

Absolutely! We're chomping at the bit!

No, though, this is a question that requires that's going to require more than a simple yes or no answer. This may be a more in-depth answer than you're looking for, but I can't think opf any other way. I'll do my best to put it as briefly as possible. Short answer: Eventually, if you end up having descendants two or three generations in the future who are Mormons, "Probably." We are supposed to be performing this vicarious work for our own relatives, so unless you have Mormon relatives, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

Here's the reason behind the practice: We do not believe that when a person dies, he immediately goes to either Heaven or Hell. Instead, we believe that his spirit leaves his body but does not cease to exist. It continues, as a fully cognizant entity, to reside in what is known as the "Spirit World" until the Second Coming of Christ, the resurrection of mankind and the Last Judgement. The Spirit World is comprised of two parts (states of existance): Paradise (the place where Jesus told the thief on the cross next to Him that He'd see him that same day) and Prison, a.k.a. Hell (the place Jesus visited in spirit form during the three days His body lay in the tomb after His crucifixion). Immediately upon death, the righteous will find themselves in Paradise -- a place of happiness, peace and rest -- while the wicked will find themselves in Prison -- a place of anguish, mental torment and grief.

At any rate, we believe that during the time a person's spirit is in the Spirit World, he can continue to learn, grow spiritually, repent of his past sins and make decisions that will -- even after death -- affect his eternal destiny. In other words, the final curtain does not fall at death. Since billions of people lived their entire lives without ever having heard the gospel of Jesus Christ, and since God is a loving Father in Heaven who is no respecter of persons, we believe He has provided them with a way to hear, understand, and either accept or reject the Atonement of Christ during the period of time after their death but before they are resurrected. Because we believe that baptism by immersion, performed by one holding the proper authority, is a requirement for entrance into the presence of God, and because a spirit is incorporeal and can therefore not be baptized, we perform proxy baptisms for our deceased relatives who may not have had the opportunity to have received this ordinance during their lifetimes.

Here is the caveat: In order for the baptism to have any effect at all, the spirit of the person who has died must accept it. In other words, if I were to be baptized for my great, great, great grandmother, and if she, having lived her life as a non-Mormon and now waiting in the Spirit World for the resurrection, accepted the message of the restored gospel as it was presented to her after her death and the baptism performed with me as a proxy for her, it would be as if she had been baptized into the Chuch of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as a child growing up in England several hundred years earlier. If, on the other hand, she rejected the message taught to her in the Spirit World, it would be as if the baptism had never been performed. In other words, I would have wasted my time and my good intentions would be for naught.

Absolutely not! If we didn't associate with you, how could we convert you? (Man, I am really feeling sarcastic tonight!)

I don't know. That's probably a question for you to ask them. We are probably more involved with church-related activities on a daily basis than a lot of other people. Plus, we get to know our LDS neighbors because we associate with them at church every week. I honestly don't think it's because we don't want to associate with those outside of our faith. I just think that birds of a feather flock together, as the old saying says. It works both way, too. I think there's some hesitancy on the part of both the LDS and the non-LDS to be suspicious of the other group, to wonder if they really do have anything in common and to be a little bit afraid of trying to initiate a friendship. I've known LDS people who have been afraid to take a plate of brownies over to a new non-LDS neighbor after hearing second-hand that the last time they did, the non-LDS person thought they were just trying to get their foot in the door so that they could try to convert them. What has happened to all of us that we're afraid to be neighborly or that attempts to be neighborly are misinterpreted? I don't know, but it's really sad.

I'm not LDS but their belief in baptising their ancestors and the need to find out who they were has given the LDS one of the largest genological libraries which is now on line. I have a relatively rare name and due to the LDS diligence I was able to trace my lineage in America to 1635 and in Britain to the 15th century. For this I am very thankful.

[topaz3335]

That doctored picture up there got me thinking, there was once a commercial that I believed aired in the UK where the filmmakers had two young men, well dressed in suits and ties, very clean-cut, etc. walk around and go door to door but instead of talking about the LDS church they were speaking about extremist Islam and bringing down Western civilization and the like. What made it funny was that the people at whose door these 'missionaries' were knocking didn't seem to be listening to the actual words and had some truly hilarious answers. Just a funny little thing that I wish I could find online and post for all of you, you might get a kick out of it. Done it a light-hearted manner and not attempting to demean anyone or any religion, except perhaps extremist Islam and terrorism.

Although I did find it pretty interesting seeing that Islam and Mormonism have quite a few striking similarities.

[irman]

Originally Posted by topaz3335

Although I did find it pretty interesting seeing that Islam and Mormonism have quite a few striking similarities.

You have no idea how much,
until you start figuring out where it all started ....
Here something to start chewing on ....
LDS people go thru the Temple ..
For what purpose ... ??
Islam people go to Mecca ..
For what purpose ... ??

Really interesting, IF and only IF you can keep an open mind !!!!!
Something that is lacking everywhere ... (open mind that is ...)

Just for the record.
I have a few true Islam friends, and they are very upset about the way their religion has been used by extremist to justify *their* cause.

On the other hand, I asked the question about how long a nation keeps feeling *bitter* about things that were done to them ...

Think of the crusaders a long time ago ..
Who were they trying to suppress, or even eliminate ?
Might there still be some really bitter feelings there, and the people who feel bitter about it do not even realise why any more ?

In my case, not even religion is at hand some time.
I was born in Asia during the Japanese war.
My father was beheaded by the Japanese troops, and I never got to know him. Do I now just keep hating the Japanese for that atrocious (f)act ?
I even have family members who got upset about me when I decided to buy a Honda (made in Akron, OH. ... I think ... for sure not made in Japan).
All because some people can not forgive or forget ... ????
If the Islam extremist really figure things out, who knows, someday we could live in peace together ??
As far as I know, every Church, or religion, teaches *Tolerance*.
If it sinks sinks in ... ???? Who knows ....

If any LDS person tells you that you are wrong, or not right, then ask them to study their *Articles of Faith*, and leave them there, until they understand their own teachings.

I my case, I have tried to teach my children to have tolerance for everybody, regardless of race, colour of whatever makes them different.
So far, it seemed to have worked .....
Now I hope that my grandchildren be be taught the same principles.

[kaytidid]

Just when I thought it was safe. My bad.